New Gear for Theater

[TalJ]

Hi,

I am the manager of the theater in my school. The theater is professional and is being used by professional actors as a training location. For the past 10 years we have been using very simple lights that can only be dimmed. Recently I have been given a funding of about 5000 Euros to update the theater with new equipment and lights.

I have been looking into building a computerized system in the booth that will allow remote control over the various lights via DMX. I need about 4 lights (to start with) which can be programmed and used as follow spots (are they strong enough!? many are them are around 300W, while our spots are around 1000W!!), or simply as dancing lights in performances. Some have suggested that I go for some high quality moving heads, while others strictly suggested scanners. I am "fresh meat" in this zone and have no idea what to get.

I have been working with freestyler as the potential software for use with the lighting fixtures (which ever I order). I have also orderd a USB to DMX cable, and I will test it out with some of the DJ equipment lights we have in the school before making any large purchaises.

Basically I am asking for some help in choosing 4 lights (for starters...) for a large theater (15 meters wide x 10 meters length). I have an ancient light board that has been used for the simple lights currently installed, but I do not know if a new one is needed, if I will use the new computerized system. Can I connect the old simple lights to Freestyler? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated!

Thanks in advance,
TalJ

[Onge]

...
I need about 4 lights (to start with) which can be programmed and used as follow spots (are they strong enough!? many are them are around 300W, while our spots are around 1000W!!), or simply as dancing lights in performances. Some have suggested that I go for some high quality moving heads, while others strictly suggested scanners. I am "fresh meat" in this zone and have no idea what to get.
...

Well you can get Martin and most probably many other manufacturers moving heads with up to 1500W. Problem is that 5000 euros will not get you these high powered fixtures.

Take a look at the Thomann website [I suggest you use the link below!! lol | DJ Support] as you will find that that list a lot of lighting fixtures all in one place. Prices are very competative. I can recommend them as I have used them many times and have never had any problems with support or delivery. The only downside, and this does seem to be changing now, is that a lot of the fixtures come with a Shuko socket, not much use for them in the UK, which would need to be cut off and replaced with whatever you need for your theatre.

Take a look, you will learn a lot about different types of fixtures.
Tip 1: When you find a product try and look it up on the manufacturers own web site.
Tip 2: Stairville products are Thomann's own (badged) so don't try looking for more info unless you can work out who the original manufacturer is.

[TalJ]

Sounds good! I've started browsing the moving heads with lamps at 1500W...but yes 5000 Euro won't bring me there yet.
I have one more question:

With the USB to DMX cable, is the plug comming out of the USB pluggable directly to one of the fixtures? Or must I first connect it to a lightboard? I ask because I have seen a video on youtube where one of the DJ's ran the DMX from the USB to a lightboard and then to the fixtures, but he still controlled everything from the computer.

I noticed that the DMX out from my lightboard is not the same DMX out that comes out of the fixtures, from the lightboard the plug has 5 pins, and from the fixture it only has 3. Am I using incompatible equipment or am I simply missing a cable?

Thanks in advance,
TalJ

[Onge]

Hi TalJ,

What you need is a USB/DMX interface. This connects to the computer via USB. The interface converts the signals from the software on the PC to the DMX signal which is then sent out via the DMX cable to the fixtures.

The proper standard DMX-512A is to use five pin xlr plugs and sockets, but the majority of manufacturers only use three pins. You can get converters from 3-5 and vice versa.

When you say "lightboard", do you mean a traditional lighting console with faders etc. ? if so depending on the make it might be able to take a USB in connection from the PC so the console is actually acting as the DMX interface. If this is the case it might have what they call DMX merge which will enable you to control the fixtures either from the PC or the console, one will have priority over the other.

Actually thinking about it it might be midi controlled from the PC to the lighting console. Without seeing the actual vide you watched I honestly could not tell.

More information on DMX etc is available on the DMX Wiki

Hope that helps,

[Snowcat]

Hiya TalJ

Sounds like we're in roughly the same line. I'm in a similar situation with a boarding schools studio Theatre ("Thrust stage" amphitheatre, About half the size of your own with 100 seat capacity) looking forward to comparing notes.

Another vote for Thomann.de here. Have spent more than a few thousand with them recently and no complaints whatsoever. Competitive prices and service as good as anywhere. Alright, maybe one silly complaint... All the fixtures I've got from them have German mains plugs which I've had to swap over for UK equivalents. Annoying but nothing major.

My [inherited] rig started out as a "Frog" hardware controller and DMX dimmers + a load of old skool lamps. Have kept the dimmers and lamps but junked the Controller as it couldn't be easily integrated into the PC or Freestyler. Now running everything off a small Touchscreen tablet PC and Velleman K8062 interface. So far so good.

As regards fixtures:- I've been using a pair of Stairville MV250H moving heads. Only 250w but the output has easily been bright enough. I have found them to be rather noisy though (mostly fans) and they have no intensity control, only on or off. Thinking of replacing them with LED equivalents to address that. Just need to strong arm the Bursar a little more to let me have them.

Something like this may work well for you if mounted directly above the stage to aim downwards onto the cast. I only have limited experience of scanners but have found their available movement to be slightly less than a Moving Head. Don't expect to have a live followspot with these however as control can be fiddly. Preparing set marks and making sure the cast hit them are a better bet.

For later on I'd highly recommend getting a brace of LED PAR56's. Been using them for ambient/washes and love them to death. Very cheap and simple lights but will find uses in all kinds of different situations.

[remco_k]

Hi,
.... I need about 4 lights (to start with) which can be programmed and used as follow spots (are they strong enough!? many are them are around 300W, while our spots are around 1000W!!), or simply as dancing lights in performances. Some have suggested that I go for some high quality moving heads, while others strictly suggested scanners. I am "fresh meat" in this zone and have no idea what to get.

It's impossible to use any intelligent DMX controlled fixture (like movingheads and scanners) as follow spots.
Why do you think that real people are hanging high in the sky at events moving a few follow spots with their hands around? Thats because moving heads and DMX are not suited to do that.
This means: you can try, but it won't work out like you would want to.
See also this topic: followspot.
You can say; Moving heads and scanners are NOT followspots. The same goes for any intelligent DMX fixture.

Offcourse, if you have a real (manual operated) follow spot, you could dim that with a DMX dimmer, controlled by your computer. But the movements, should be done by peoples hands directly.

What will work is program some fixed positions around the theater and use them to folow the people on stage. But; it still is'nt a follow spot then...

What I think you should do:
-Buy some default theater light stuff, mount them fixed, so that the entire stage is nicely lighted. (you'll need the 1000W or more per light). These are now your fixed follow spots.
-For each 'follow spot' you buy a DMX dimmer. There are dimmer packs for 4 channels or more... Be sure to buy dimmer packs that are suited for the 1000W power for the lights.
-Buy few normal moving heads, for some 'fancy' lighting. These don't need to be 1000W or so. 250W will do. But don't intend to use them as follow spots. Just as effects or to light up specific parts of the stage. (fixed positions)

[TalJ]

Thanks for the responses!

We have 4 1000 Follow Spots, we've been using them for the past 10 years, (so yes, they are big, heavy, and get extreemly hot!), but the main problem has been positioning them. The theater has two levels, and can accomidate 500 people. The only location where the spots could be properly positioned and controlled (manualy) is between the crowd, which as you can immagine wasn't very convenient.

In the 3D EasyView of Freestyler, I have positioned a scanner and controlled it's pan/tilt with a joystick, and it worked very nicely. WIll this not be the case in reality? From the thread about 'follow spots', I udnerstand that moving heads will change their speed suddenly, but will this be the case with scanners, which simply shift the mirror a degree up/down?

The lightboard we currently have is a Strand Lighting model. It has a midi input, as well as a DMX input. The thing is extreemly old...and it is tedious to program cues on it - a computerized system on a desktop would simply be amazing. If it would be possible to connect all of the old lights to the computer via the USB/DMX converter, it would be amazing. However, the old lights are all connected to a massive dimmer, which is then connected to the DMX. Is this possible?

Thanks for the help everyone!
TalJ

[Snowcat]

The lightboard we currently have is a Strand Lighting model. It has a midi input, as well as a DMX input. The thing is extreemly old...and it is tedious to program cues on it - a computerized system on a desktop would simply be amazing. If it would be possible to connect all of the old lights to the computer via the USB/DMX converter, it would be amazing. However, the old lights are all connected to a massive dimmer, which is then connected to the DMX. Is this possible?

I don't see why not so long as the dimmer packs take dmx data.

All you would need to do is add ? number of Pars (single channel) in the add/remove fixtures menu and address them up to match the existing rig. That's how mine are done. Have placed them so the Freestyler desktop resembles a map of the rig above. Makes things easier to figure out in a hurry when directors want to edit cues.

[TalJ]

Hi,

A quick update on what has been ordered:

6 x Eurolite TS - 255

I have managed to connect the old fixtures to freestyler (thanks Snowcat!)

Once everything is running nice i'll post some videos and photos

Thanks for the help,

TalJ

[Tom]

Just thought I'd chip in here for future reference. You should never use moving lights as followspots. No amount of techonlogy can replace a real person pointing a light at people - which is why they still have spotters on Broadway and the West End.

[Snowcat]

Agreed.

Fixed positions - yes

Predictable timed movements (For example, someone walking slowly up the aisle) - Possible. Make the performer follow the light rather than the other way around.

"Live" follow spot with an unpredictable target? - Forget it... Hand aimed by human operator is still the far better bet.

[Tom]

Agreed.
"Live" follow spot with an unpredictable target? - Forget it... Hand aimed by human operator is still the far better bet.

Absolutely! Which is why I always use a real op on my shows.

[TalJ]

Hey All!

Long time has passed!

Unfortunatel the school has canceled the order of the 6 Eurolites due to an 'undisclosed' reason.
However, the next day, 3000 euros appeared in our bank account and we got a GO to order the lights xD!
Instead of getting the Eurolites, we got two Showtec Explorer 575 Spots



Unbelievable.
They are insanely powerful and light up the entire stage! We have them hanging from the bridge and they can point anywhere, even at the crowd!

Back to the spot light discussion. I have actualy found an interesting solution. I have set the resolution to the maximum (in the pan/tilt grid), and I have set the scanspeed of the heads to relatively low. Like this I have found it extreemly simple to track a person on stage by simply dragging the curser along the grid. Since the moving head responds slowly, it takes it doesn't suddenly jerk, and moves with a more natural feel.

Of course when following fast paced dance performances we will put up the big spots again, but this is a great solution for assemblies, speakers and presentations.

Any idea on how to sync music to light - properly. I want to create a serious light show with the fixtures REALLY following the music. Any ideas?

Thanks in advance,
TalJ