Moving problems with HQ-Power Nexus250

[dustin]

Hello Everybody,
I have a problem using my new HQ-Power Nexus with Freestyler.

First I made a fixture because the Scanner wasn't in the fixture library. Of course, the Nexus250 is equal with the DJ-Scan260 from Futurelight, but the dmx channels are some different. The fixture works well and all function are right.

Now I'm using the Pan/Tilt Window to move the scanner-mirror manually. And that's it what is making my problems. I move the point on the matrix and stop at any position of the window, the scanner still moves one a little bit. Not so much, but it doesn't stop when I stop. But when I use the Pan/Tilt Fader on the right, the scanner stops moving when I stop.

The same problem is with moving in generally. Using the shapes the movement of the scanner is very "hard" and "unexact". Moving the scanner with the Pan/Tilt Fader the movement is smooth and exact.

So, I'm thinking this can't be a problem of the scanner. Otherwise the behaviour must be the same, no matter what function I use for it. On the other side, i haven't this problems with my Eurolite TSL-100 on both functions.

Does anybody hace this problem also, or confirm this on another way? Else, does anybody have an idea where my problem is?

Thanks for any tip.

[remco_k]

Hi,

Do the same tests again and have a look at the edit->show output window. Find the pan/tilt channels and see what the values do there. (Are they still changing while you don't move the pan/tilt ball anymore, or are they static and is your scanner still moving?)
If your scanner is 16 bit pan/tilt, don't forget to have a look at the 16 bit pan/tilt channels, so you'd have to look at 4 channels instead of 2.
Maybe there is the difference between the sliders and the pan/tilt window also. When changing just the 8 bit pan/tilt (with the sliders) your scanner responds normally like you expect, but when using the pan/tilt window, which is also changing the 16 bit (the fine resolution), it might 'cause' that problem. If this is true, its a problem of your scanner.

A possible resolution could then be to just use 8 bit pan/tilt - by editing the fixture file and remove the fine (16 bit) pan/tilt channels.
Or (if available) config your scanner as 8 bit p/t.

Edit:
hmm, I see the scanner is only 8 bit. Still have a look at the show output window at the p/t channels.

[dustin]

Hi,

Do the same tests again and have a look at the edit->show output window. Find the pan/tilt channels and see what the values do there. (Are they still changing while you don't move the pan/tilt ball anymore, or are they static and is your scanner still moving?)

I do what you told and open the output window. The values are static when I move the pan/tilt ball anymore, but the scanner is still moving.

So, do you have any other idea or should I rechange the scanner to an other model?
With this "moving behaviour" it doesn't make really fun to work ...

[LJ_krede.dk]

it sounds like the same behaviour remco_k mentioned in another topic.

One of the reasons is that some fixtures have some kind of leveling mechanism (that in some fixtures cannot be shut down), so that they move slowly to the point you want them to have if it was a small change. Even when you have moved to that point instantly. Then, when that light is moving so slowly, you (as a human) begin to compensate that by moving your joystick further away. The fixture begins to move faster (as it 'sees' that it needs to go at a bigger distance) and before you know it, the fixture goes right past the point you want it to have and shining nicely to the ceiling.

i have the same issue with my MH640's and MH660 Moving heads from Futurelight

[dustin]

i have the same issue with my MH640's and MH660 Moving heads from Futurelight

The HQ-Power Nexus 250 Scanner is still the same as the Futurelight DJ-Scan 260. Perhaps it is an issue with the devices of this company ...

[remco_k]

it sounds like the same behaviour remco_k mentioned in another topic.
...

Oh my! What a wise words... I must have been drunk at the time.

Alright, so it seems to be a problem in the scanner.

There is one thing that annoys me:

Now I'm using the Pan/Tilt Window to move the scanner-mirror manually. And that's it what is making my problems. I move the point on the matrix and stop at any position of the window, the scanner still moves one a little bit. Not so much, but it doesn't stop when I stop. But when I use the Pan/Tilt Fader on the right, the scanner stops moving when I stop.

I like to get to the bottom of things...
Sounds contrary to me.
So why is it working correctly there? Or maybe it is not working correctly also?
Might it be because p/t are not changed at the same time (as in the p/t window) but seperately what makes it "work"?
I'm really curious if you can find out what difference there is and why it works there. Also, if you do, it might help to provide a possible solution.
Although I don't think that this can be solved in FreeStyler software. Maybe there is a firmware upgrade available for your scanners?

I use Robe movingheads a lot, de clubspot 150CT has that "leveling" mechanism. I'm used to it working that way. It is just the way it is - by default. There is one difference: regardless if I use the p/t window or the p/t sliders, it levels.
However, this fixture has also a channel that documents the movement speed (p/t speed), which 'overrides' that leveling. So it can be kind of disabled there.

[dustin]

I just continued testing and found out just another thing:
If you are using the left/right/up/down arrows at the pan/tilt window and click them just once, the scanner moves 8 little steps in that direction. The values in the output window goes up or down only one value that time.

I don't know if this help to find out where the problem is, but I want to tell you ...

[remco_k]

I just continued testing and found out just another thing:
If you are using the left/right/up/down arrows at the pan/tilt window and click them just once, the scanner moves 8 little steps in that direction. The values in the output window goes up or down only one value that time.

I don't know if this help to find out where the problem is, but I want to tell you ...

Definitaly a "leveling/speed" mechanism in your scanner. I think it is just the way your scanner works.
If you do the same little step in the slider bars on the right, it should to the same.

[dustin]

I also tested the fixture for the Futurelight DJ-Scan 260 which is delivered with Freestyler to verify that there's no mistake in my fixture. It's still the same. Now I haven't any other idea to get this behaviour of.

[remco_k]

Start by taking out all questions, no matter how unimportant they seem.
I (and since a few hours also Onge) am wondering if you have the same problem in the sliders as in the p/t window, when you make that same little step.
I think it should, I guess Onge also, but in your first post you mention the opposite. So, what is it?

Hope you have it sorted before I go to bed tonight, otherwise I won't sleep.

[dustin]

So, as I won't be fault that you can't sleep tonight, here the points one by one:

1. Moving the scanner with the ball in the p/t window, the scanner moves on even you stoped moving the ball.
2. Moving the the scanner with the left/right/up/down arrows in the p/t window, the scanner make 8 little steps when clicking an arrow once a time.
3. Using the shapes in the p/t window the movement of the scanner movement looks rough and unexact.
4. Using the fader for pan and tilt, the scanner stop exact at the position you clicked. Also the movement looks smoother.
5. The values at the output window won't change after stop moving the ball in the p/t window, the scanner does.
6. With my Eurolite TSL-100 doesn't show this behaviour, so it can't be the interface. Or?

Just another question, are there any points at the freestyler setup I should take a look on? For example the output rate for the interface?

Now you have a lot of points to take a look at before you go to bed.

[dustin]

Good morning everybody,
after a long night without much sleep and a lot of "brainstorming" and testing I find out where my problem is.

When I make a move, the scanner goes first in the tilt direction and then in the pan direction. So you have the impression, he's still moving on after you stoped moving the p/t ball. You can see this explicit if you make little diagonal (one up and one left) on the matrix of the p/t window. If you're using the p/t slider you only make a move in one direction and you won't see this behaviour.

But now I have two new big questionmark on my brow
Is there any why to get this of, or must I really rechange the scanner to another one ...
And - is this a "normal" behaviour of some scanner, or is it just a firmware / hardware issue ...

Please ... say something to me ...

[remco_k]

Is there any why to get this of, or must I really rechange the scanner to another one ...
And - is this a "normal" behaviour of some scanner, or is it just a firmware / hardware issue ...

Please ... say something to me ...

Boo!

Maybe it is a setting on the scanner. It is not normal behaviour. Maybe a firmware upgrade (if available) will solve it.

Just a little question: Does the problem still occur when you let the scanner move diagonal using the p/t window, but just using 1 click of the mouse? (so that values are changed just once)
What interface are you using?

[dustin]

Just a little question: Does the problem still occur when you let the scanner move diagonal using the p/t window, but just using 1 click of the mouse? (so that values are changed just once)
What interface are you using?

Yes, he does !!!
That was the way I found it out. I used the p/t windows and click the ball just one quader to left and one above. Then I could see how the scanner make the tilt movement first and then the pan movement. The same procedure with my Eurolite TSl-100 and the scanner moves like expected - diagonal.

I'm using the Eurolite USB-DMX 512 Interface.
Do you thing it could be an interface issue?

Tomorrow I will go the store where I buy the scanner and we will try out another one and perhaps the have another Interface that is supported by Freestyler. So we could make a vice versa test. Otherwise I have the option to change the scanner. They have a Involight MovingHead MH151S where I take a look on ...

[remco_k]

Just a little question: Does the problem still occur when you let the scanner move diagonal using the p/t window, but just using 1 click of the mouse? (so that values are changed just once)
What interface are you using?

Yes, he does !!!
That was the way I found it out. I used the p/t windows and click the ball just one quader to left and one above. Then I could see how the scanner make the tilt movement first and then the pan movement. The same procedure with my Eurolite TSl-100 and the scanner moves like expected - diagonal.

I'm using the Eurolite USB-DMX 512 Interface.
Do you thing it could be an interface issue?

No, not anymore. It can't be an interface issue if the problem only occurs with one fixture and not with another.
(I previously thought about the internal speed of the interface/driver. Maybe thats not keeping up when you click and drag in the p/t window, the p/t DMX values will then not change only one time, but hundreds of times. I figured an interface or its driver might not be able to keep up the speed. There is one interface I know of it can't: the Velleman VM-116/K8062).

Tomorrow I will go the store where I buy the scanner and we will try out another one and perhaps the have another Interface that is supported by Freestyler. So we could make a vice versa test. Otherwise I have the option to change the scanner. They have a Involight MovingHead MH151S where I take a look on ...

I'm curious!

[dustin]

Hi,

Do the same tests again and have a look at the edit->show output window. Find the pan/tilt channels and see what the values do there. (Are they still changing while you don't move the pan/tilt ball anymore, or are they static and is your scanner still moving?)
If your scanner is 16 bit pan/tilt, don't forget to have a look at the 16 bit pan/tilt channels, so you'd have to look at 4 channels instead of 2.
Maybe there is the difference between the sliders and the pan/tilt window also. When changing just the 8 bit pan/tilt (with the sliders) your scanner responds normally like you expect, but when using the pan/tilt window, which is also changing the 16 bit (the fine resolution), it might 'cause' that problem. If this is true, its a problem of your scanner.

A possible resolution could then be to just use 8 bit pan/tilt - by editing the fixture file and remove the fine (16 bit) pan/tilt channels.
Or (if available) config your scanner as 8 bit p/t.

Edit:
hmm, I see the scanner is only 8 bit. Still have a look at the show output window at the p/t channels.

Hi Remco,

coming back to my problem. It seems to be an software / interface problem.
Today we tested the scanner with an lightning desk from JB-lightning and it moves without any problems.

Now I'm back home and tested something with freestyler and suddenly I see that the P/T Fader are labeled with "Pan16bit" and "Tilt16bit". Then I take a look at the channel description from my fixture and there's the same. So - could it be that these are my problems? But I don't know where the "16bit" comes from and how to change them to "8bit".

I make two screenshots of this and make an attachment. Perhaps you can take a look of this ...
Thanks.

[remco_k]

Hi Remco,

coming back to my problem. It seems to be an software / interface problem.
Today we tested the scanner with an lightning desk from JB-lightning and it moves without any problems.

This is the point where this topic gets _really_ interesting. So now it seems 'proved' that the fixture is working correctly, leaving the interface, its driver or FreeStyler as suspects.

Now I'm back home and tested something with freestyler and suddenly I see that the P/T Fader are labeled with "Pan16bit" and "Tilt16bit". Then I take a look at the channel description from my fixture and there's the same. So - could it be that these are my problems? But I don't know where the "16bit" comes from and how to change them to "8bit".

That label is just (and really nothing more) than a name. It could be named "Asshole" and "Shithead" (not meant for you ). Functionality is'nt changed as long as the pan/tilt channel values on the fixture tab are filled in correctly. I've looked at those, they are correct.
I can imagine that you still might think its wrong, and in fact it is. That channel should not be named Pan16bit and Tilt16bit. So edit the fixture file and on the very same tab as you made a screenshot, just edit the names to just Pan and Tilt.
As stated, this will not solve your problem and if it does, I'll eat my shoe. (and later let Raph do the same. )

I guess there are more users using this fixture, so they should have the same problem. Or not, and then we/you/they need to find out why not and how to get to a solution.
damn... I won't sleep tonight.

[remco_k]

Export your fixture file and upload it so we can check it out.

Check that you only have the 8bit pan/tilt fields defined in Fixture Creator, zero in the 16bit fields is OK.

(edited my previous post)
The fixture is in FreeStyler, I assumed he uses that (the same 'typo' in the pan/tilt section is there). But maybe its better to upload the *.pff file yes... You'll never know.

[LJ_krede.dk]

coming back to my problem. It seems to be an software / interface problem.
Today we tested the scanner with an lightning desk from JB-lightning and it moves without any problems.

Now I'm back home and tested something with freestyler and suddenly I see that the P/T Fader are labeled with "Pan16bit" and "Tilt16bit". Then I take a look at the channel description from my fixture and there's the same. So - could it be that these are my problems? But I don't know where the "16bit" comes from and how to change them to "8bit".

so it was not the exact same scanner you tested on the lighting desk and Freestyler?? it was just two of the same kind? or did you have it with you? if its not the same scanner you tested on, it can still be a problem in the scanner

[dustin]

You can find my fixture here.

[dustin]

so it was not the exact same scanner you tested on the lighting desk and Freestyler?? it was just two of the same kind? or did you have it with you? if its not the same scanner you tested on, it can still be a problem in the scanner

It was my scanner we have tested.
I take it with me to exclude that is an problem with my scanner or to make shure that all these scanner have the same "problem".

[remco_k]

I thought the fixture file was in FreeStyler, but in fact I had imported it days ago. Did'nt remember that.

Like Onge noted in the topic of the fixture file, I think its good to review the way you defined gobo channels.

But to exclude all kinds of other stuff, try this: open a new FreeStyler. Add one "2 PAR 64 L" fixture from the PAR 64 category and adress it to the start adress of your scanner.
Now you cant use the Pan/tilt window, but if you select the 2 PAR 64 L the Color1 control is the Pan and the Color2 Control is the Tilt.
Does dat work nicely, or having the same problems?

[dustin]

But to exclude all kinds of other stuff, try this: open a new FreeStyler. Add one "2 PAR 64 L" fixture from the PAR 64 category and adress it to the start adress of your scanner.
Now you cant use the Pan/tilt window, but if you select the 2 PAR 64 L the Color1 control is the Pan and the Color2 Control is the Tilt.
Does dat work nicely, or having the same problems?

Yes it works nicely. But seperate Pan/Tilt movements are not a problem for the scanner. The combination of Pan/Tilt makes the problem, for example when you move from the down left to up right, then the scanner moves first up and then right. And not diagonal.

[remco_k]

But to exclude all kinds of other stuff, try this: open a new FreeStyler. Add one "2 PAR 64 L" fixture from the PAR 64 category and adress it to the start adress of your scanner.
Now you cant use the Pan/tilt window, but if you select the 2 PAR 64 L the Color1 control is the Pan and the Color2 Control is the Tilt.
Does dat work nicely, or having the same problems?

Yes it works nicely. But seperate Pan/Tilt movements are not a problem for the scanner. The combination of Pan/Tilt makes the problem, for example when you move from the down left to up right, then the scanner moves first up and then right. And not diagonal.

Ofcourse, I did'nt think about that.
What if you set the pan/tilt values really fast after eachother?
Also try making a 2 step sequence. First step pan and tilt on say 0, second step pan and tilt on 255. (Or choose the values where you tested with previously).
And run it, that way you achieved the pan and tilt values to change at the same time.

[dustin]

Ofcourse, I did'nt think about that.
What if you set the pan/tilt values really fast after eachother?
Also try making a 2 step sequence. First step pan and tilt on say 0, second step pan and tilt on 255. (Or choose the values where you tested with previously).
And run it, that way you achieved the pan and tilt values to change at the same time.

It seems to be a little smoother, but at least not what I expected. He doesn't move p/t simultaneous.