Sound to Light CPU Intensive=Problem

[wee_jimmy_mehrts]

Hey guys,

Not sure if this is the right place to be putting this, but i'll keep on going.

I have been tasked with the job of installing a few scanners, cans and control systems in a nightclub in my hometown, for which I am using FreeStyler with sound to light enabled, as i'm very familiar with it. I have used the Sound to Light (S2L) function many times before with no problems.

However,
The computer that they've got at the club for running freestyler isn't the best on the market, and when I run S2L, it bogs it down incredibly and fails to run anything smoothly at all. When I opened up Task Manager, I noticed it was taking up 50% of cpu power. Not good .

I have played around with the cpu refresh time thing in S2L, but with no performance improvements whatsoever. I have used other lighting programs with S2L features and they have used ~5-10% cpu power. I'll mention the DasLight Virtual Controller software as I use it quite often as well. The S2L feature offers better control and beat detection while being very easy on the cpu.

I was wondering, would it be possible to incorporate a different S2L application for use with FreeStyler, or simply adjust the power the current one uses, so that I can get it running sweet as on the computer in the club. I mean, after all, who wants a crappy lightshow that doesn't even try to keep up with the music?

Any replys and/or help would be greatly appreciated

[remco_k]

Did you compare those other S2L software on that same computer? If not, your test is not quite legal, I'm afraid.
Maybe you can post system specs here (CPU/Mem/Soundcard/OS)?
Did you try update the soundcard driver to the newest version?

First of all, S2L just takes up CPU usage, always. It filters frequencies and thats one of the big things costing CPU power.
It might be that another application is less CPU intensive, that can mean 2 things:
1. That other app is not doing any filtering at all (which makes beat detection quite impossible)
2. The FS S2L software is written somewhat "bad".

Then there are onboard soundcards, costing even more CPU as they don't run standalone as PCI soundcards do.
Some drivers are really CPU intensive, sometimes everything gets resampled all the time, costing even more CPU.
Also keep in mind diffent CPU's (AMD / Intel), I've found many times AMD CPU's not keeping up whith audio applications.
Intel CPU's seems to do things much easier.

Also a different approach of getting the audio data makes a difference in CPU usage on certain combinations of hardware and drivers. Now you can't do anything about that, but it explains why some applications use more CPU power when processing audio data.

[Onge]

I did not see you mention what DMX interface is being used as certain interfaces do not have an on-board processor so the CPU of the computer has to do all the work as well as everything else.

[wee_jimmy_mehrts]

Thanks for the reply.
DMX controller=Oxsidizer USB-DMX, just a cheap one at the moment.

Did you compare those other S2L software on that same computer?
-Yea I used the same computer every time for this comparison.

I personally run a Black Intel MacBook with a partition of XP Pro SP3 for freestyler etc.
Specs:
CPU=2.4 GHz Intel t8300
RAM=2Gb
Hard Drive=250Gb
Sound Card=Intel HD. Im pretty sure its integrated with cpu. not 100% sure on that though.
so it's a pretty beasty machine for freestyler work, but still CPU load remains at 50% with S2L. Not sure on specs with the clubs computer. It's not the best is all I know at the moment.

1. That other app is not doing any filtering at all (which makes beat detection quite impossible)
-Actually, Daslights S2L app detects beats better than freestylers while only taking up 10% CPU

2. The FS S2L software is written somewhat "bad".
-Maybe so...Not bad for free software though...

[Onge]

Thanks for the reply.
DMX controller=Oxsidizer USB-DMX, just a cheap one at the moment.

Did you compare those other S2L software on that same computer?
-Yea I used the same computer every time for this comparison.

I personally run a Black Intel MacBook with a partition of XP Pro SP3 for freestyler etc.
Specs:
CPU=2.4 GHz Intel t8300
RAM=2Gb
Hard Drive=250Gb
Sound Card=Intel HD. Im pretty sure its integrated with cpu. not 100% sure on that though.
so it's a pretty beasty machine for freestyler work, but still CPU load remains at 50% with S2L. Not sure on specs with the clubs computer. It's not the best is all I know at the moment.

1. That other app is not doing any filtering at all (which makes beat detection quite impossible)
-Actually, Daslights S2L app detects beats better than freestylers while only taking up 10% CPU

2. The FS S2L software is written somewhat "bad".
-Maybe so...Not bad for free software though...

This is something I was trying to point out about interfaces. The Daslight interface has an onboard processor so relives a lot of CPU strain, I am pretty sure the interface you have does not have an onboard processor so will hit the CPU and as you are using S2L to change the lights a lot of CPU activity is going to happen as a lot of changing DMX signals will occur.
I bet if you did not use S2L and used the light sound 2 light functions the CPU load would drop, but from my experience lighting fixtures implementation of sound 2 light is usually quite poor and very random sometimes.

[remco_k]

50% cpu on a 2.4 GHz machine... Thats really not good as far as I'm concerned. Should me more like 5 to 10% for S2L.

Onge has a point there.
Easy to test that: set FreeStyler's output to "virtual interface" and run S2L again. Ofcourse the lights won't go on, but have a look at the CPU load. Then you'll know if its the S2L or USB DMX interface.

If still having that high load on your machine, then please find out with the taskmanager which application is causing the high load, or part of that.

[wee_jimmy_mehrts]

When the virtual interface is selected in freestyler, nothing changes at all. So this suggests that there is no difference between using my usb-dmx interface and the "virtual" one.

I have provided a zip file with screenshots of both FreeStyler and Daslight running with S2L on my own computer and its specs while task manager was open. Notice the CPU load and CPU temperature differences? The culprit is always sl.exe which always runs at 50% - That is with the refresh rate on max. As you say, remco_k, this isn't good at all.

@ onge, I'm not that worried about the S2L beat quality at the moment, it's just for the simple fact that I don't want my computer to be running ~70*C all the time when running. And i'm nor quite sure about what you said about not using the S2L, but then saying to use it? Confusing Are you saying to use the beat detection on the lights themselves?
If you are, that's a problem in itself as only the 2 scanners that I am using have that. All others, such as my macs and dimmers have to be controlled by FreeStyler.

I also do understand that the daslight interface would reduce CPU load, but that would be indicated by the daslight application, not the S2L one when running.

Reason for zip=seperate images had too many pixels for upload, i didn't want to resize them, so I threw then into a zip file. Just open it to see screenshots

[remco_k]

it's just for the simple fact that I don't want my computer to be running ~70*C all the time when running.

A little offtopic:
If a computer is manufactured and cooled properly (read: normally), it should be able to run 100% CPU load, 24 hrs a day without getting too hot.
So if your system is going to 70˚C on 50% load, I'd say something is wrong there also.

Also take in consideration that the temperature censors sometimes can be very inaccurate. So maybe the 70˚C is in reality 50˚C.

[wee_jimmy_mehrts]

Macbooks havn't had a good reputation with running cool when under load. When at 50% load it does get up to ~70*C. However, it continues to stay at that temperature if the load increases. The fan just adjusts its speed accordingly.

Still would like to know if theres a possible workaround for the S2L situation. For when I run it on the clubs computer I don't want to have to deal with any set backs.

[djSupport]

Raph offered peopel to come forward and re-write the sound to light module if theres still any takers get in touch and make it better...............

[Snowcat]

Unless I'm mistaken, that Mac Book is running a Dual-Core Processor? ("Core2Duo" or whatever it's called now.) Is it possible that you're maxing out one core but not the other? It may be worth trying to set the CPU affinity and see if that helps things a little.

Within the XP partition you're using:- Task Manager -> Right click the process in question -> "Set affinity" -> make sure both cores are ticked.

(Sorry if I'm way off the mark.)

[djSupport]

Within the XP partition you're using:- Task Manager -> Right click the process in question -> "Set affinity" -> make sure both cores are ticked.

(Sorry if I'm way off the mark.)

Thats a smart ass tip cheers - and I dont just mean for sound2light....

[remco_k]

Raph offered peopel to come forward and re-write the sound to light module if theres still any takers get in touch and make it better...............

And here comes the good news:
Raph and I contacted eachother after a public call for help to all beta testers , he wants to release a new version of FreeStyler soon, but the old SL.exe is indeed somewhat heavy on certain machines and unstable. He can't find the time nor technology to create a good working version of Sl.exe.
So I started writing a complete new Sound 2 Light application. It is in internal beta test now, it will be beta released soon. And if it all works out in time, it will be released the same time a new release of FreeStyler comes out.

So, in a few weeks, all of our problems are solved. (But new may arise )

[Onge]

Raph offered peopel to come forward and re-write the sound to light module if theres still any takers get in touch and make it better...............

And here comes the good news:
Raph and I contacted eachother after a public call for help to all beta testers , he wants to release a new version of FreeStyler soon, but the old SL.exe is indeed somewhat heavy on certain machines and unstable. He can't find the time nor technology to create a good working version of Sl.exe.
So I started writing a complete new Sound 2 Light application. It is in internal beta test now, it will be beta released soon. And if it all works out in time, it will be released the same time a new release of FreeStyler comes out.

So, in a few weeks, all of our problems are solved. (But new may arise )

A BIG thanks goes out to Raph an Remco for their oustanding work in this project.

[djSupport]

remco just think future proof aswell i.e. resolume v'j app has a spectrum and lots of controls for the sound if you make it do amazing things but the extras dont work with FS then still go with it then maybe raph will implement or use the features if you get what I mean....

[remco_k]

I get what you mean.
I have future plans for implementing more features than just beat detection. You'll read that on the site (to be announced) as soon as the beta release is out.
For now the time window to implement that kind of advanced things properly is about 6,5 months too short.
So I'm trying to at least do the same as the old SL.exe could do, but just try to do some better and using less cpu.
At the moment it seems I have exceeded myself and wrote the S2L app using about 0% CPU on an 1,5 GHz P4. And yes, it worked.
Now we need to beta release the app and make it fool proof. Then it will be ready for the world.
I just asked Raph do to that so I guess that beta e-mail of him wil come soon.

[Onge]

I get what you mean.
I have future plans for implementing more features than just beat detection. You'll read that on the site (to be announced) as soon as the beta release is out.
For now the time window to implement that kind of advanced things properly is about 6,5 months too short.
So I'm trying to at least do the same as the old SL.exe could do, but just try to do some better and using less cpu.
At the moment it seems I have exceeded myself and wrote the S2L app using about 0% CPU on an 1,5 GHz P4. And yes, it worked.
Now we need to beta release the app and make it fool proof. Then it will be ready for the world.
I just asked Raph do to that so I guess that beta e-mail of him wil come soon.

You and Raph are stars, nope change that, Super Stars

[Mattotone]

iv just had a play with the new s2l, it is a massive improvement on the old, the detection rate is alot more acurate and CPU ussage is way lower.
if your looking for suggestions, being able to select the frequency range the beat detection works with would be good for differnt genres of music.

[remco_k]

Yes, in one of the next upcoming versions I'll implement multiband analysis of the audio, users then will be able to select the frequency (or band, or both) where the beat trigger works on. Maybe I will implement a simpler version so that you can select the frequency with 2 + and - buttons, like the old SL.exe app.
Anyway, for a very first beta release it seems to be working very good!

[Mattotone]

Maybe I will implement a simpler version so that you can select the frequency with 2 + and - buttons, like the old SL.exe app.

A fetaure i never knew existed. And i thaught i knew every FS feature. hmmm.
I wonder if theres anymore hidden features?

keep up the good work, multiband analysis is what it needs, i have also looked into extracting the bpm from virtual dj, it seems posible and easy enough except you have to be a pro user to get the SDK and examples. And it the bar i work at who owns the software il have to ask nicely if i can use the registration details. if i or u could get this to work could we incoperate this into the s2l or develop it as a seperate plugin.

[LJ_krede.dk]

Anyway, for a very first beta release it seems to be working very good!

Are you sure its a beta version?? Its not acting like one at all!!

i have a little request. It could be nice to have the option "always on top" so the s2l window always is showed on the screen (like magic 3d)


then i have a suggestion but maybe its to much to ask for; Midi features so you can control the gain and bass from a midi controller

[remco_k]

The first beta release turned out really well, so there is a new beta out now.
Raph is going to mail it to the beta testers, and I figured to post the url of my website here, so more people can test the new sound 2 light app:

http://www.digiplay.nl/fs/
For all you nerds a nice screenshot:


You might want to backup the old SL.exe app, as the setup of my SL.exe overwrites the old one.
I added few new features and functionality, see my website for details. I'm not planning to implement more functionality for the time being. Unless it proves global major improvement somehow and if I can find the time to do that.
What this version (0.0.0.2) of SL.exe can do, is what I had in mind to have pretty good sound to light functionality.

Please all test this beta, as this beta should become the first official release soon. For bug reports and other stuff you can contact me via e-mail, found at the bottom of my website.
And if the number of downloads is one when you enter the site, then you are the first to download! (besides me...).

This link could be helpfull if you encounter problems capturing your wave device:
http://www.downloadsquad.com/2007/01/15 ... -in-vista/

[LJ_krede.dk]

I added few new features and functionality, see my website for details. I'm not planning to implement more functionality for the time being. Unless it proves global major improvement somehow and if I can find the time to do that.

on your webpage you have written:

Future plans
* Multi band analysis (FFT) for more options and functionality switchable on/off
* BPM meter, tracking and BPM forecast switchable on/off

do you still having plans about the BPM?

[remco_k]

I added few new features and functionality, see my website for details. I'm not planning to implement more functionality for the time being. Unless it proves global major improvement somehow and if I can find the time to do that.

on your webpage you have written:

Future plans
* Multi band analysis (FFT) for more options and functionality switchable on/off
* BPM meter, tracking and BPM forecast switchable on/off

do you still having plans about the BPM?

Yes (should say "probably"), as for the FFT/Multiband analysis.
If so, it might not be build in in some short time period. Thats where the "for the time being" came from.

I picked up this nice project quickly for Raph, to do something back for his work on FreeStyler and the community.
I have lots of other things to do, so the work on this project needs to fit in that. Both the BPM and FFT ideas going to cost a lot of time, probably as much or more time this entire project took until now. (several days) But that is just a guess.

Anyway, for now and for the upcoming period of undefined length this is the Sound 2 Light tool as-is. Bugs (if found ) , of course, will be fixed.
On the other hand, if I find myself bored in a couple of days, I might pick it up. You'll never know.

[remco_k]

And a new beta 0.0.0.3 of Sound 2 Light is available with some fixes:
http://www.digiplay.nl/fs/