(Solved) Weird, wacky results when freestyler boots

[bumclouds]

Hey guys,

I have recently just switched over from Light Jockey to Freestyler.

I bought a new computer running Windows XP, and I have bought an Enttec Open USB DMX device. I have installed the drivers for the Enttec Open USB using the installation disc that came with it, and plugged it in. I've also plugged in the DMX cable that starts the daisy-chain of lighting fixtures, into my Enttec Open USB. Up until this point everything is fine and nothing happens.

Now when I double click Freestyler, the second that progress bar completes and Freestyler boots, my lights go absolutely MENTAL. And by that I mean wiggling, squeeking, jittering, and scrolling through colours and gobos. At this point I usually freak out and hit the power off to the lights because I'm worried.


Any advice about how to troubleshoot this?

Andrew

[LJ_krede.dk]

two suggestions/questions that might solve the problem (but only might)

1) do you have a terminator at the end of your daisy chain?
- If not, this can cause a lot of trouble, like what you are discribbing!
- look at this topic to see why a terminator is a "must have"

2) Have you selected the right interface in freestyler?

if that not helps, try to start freestyler without the daisy chain connected,, wait a while after freestyler is ready and then try and see if that helps

[dmxlighting]

Sounds like u have crossed or damage comms cables. I've seen this before. U need to check all your cables and make sure they are all correctly wired and have no damage on them.
If the polarity is crossed somewhere on the chain then some fixtures will go nuts in the way you say.

[bumclouds]

Thanks for your advice guys!

To the above post. After everything went nuts in Freestyler, I hooked up my old computer, with its old Light Jockey software and Lightjockey interface and everything responded perfectly okay. So based on this, I would say the cabling is okay.

The thing about the old computer with its Light Jockey interface card though, is that two cables coming out of it - one female and one male. This probably means that the signal was going back into the interface card instead of being terminated right?

I'll buy an XLR termination, hook it up and let you know what happens.

Sorry to be such a noob.

Andrew

[LJ_krede.dk]

I'll buy an XLR termination, hook it up and let you know what happens.

you can make it by yourself:

http://www.thedmxwiki.com/definitions/dmx_terminator

[djSupport]

Not to upset you but I've changed your link LJ_krede.dk because thedmxwiki holds the same information more or less and its run by the people from this forum and 2 I think the people from the blue room are bastards! Sorry for the language... lol

[LJ_krede.dk]

Not to upset you but I've changed your link LJ_krede.dk because thedmxwiki holds the same information more or less and its run by the people from this forum and 2 I think the people from the blue room are bastards! Sorry for the language... lol

no worries.. i just did a quick google search.. maybe i should try and look at that wiki instead

[remco_k]

To the above post. After everything went nuts in Freestyler, I hooked up my old computer, with its old Light Jockey software and Lightjockey interface and everything responded perfectly okay. So based on this, I would say the cabling is okay.

I'm afraid thats not quite true.
I'll try to explain simple; fixtures can go crazy for a lot of different reasons.
One of them is interference on your DMX cable (mostly occurs when not using a terminator). It might be possible that you have interference all the time, when connected to the lightjockey interface and connected to the Enttec Open DMX.
But, since those 2 are completely different interfaces, with completely different designs their electrical way of work is different. And so it is actually possible that the combination of one interface and your existing DMX chain works good, and using another interface the DMX chain is going crazy.
People could think it is the interface then, but I just want to say "don't hang yourself up to that". It really still can be bad wiring and/or combination not using a terminator.

You should make a very small test setup. 1 DMX fixture, one short DMX cable, your computer and interface and connect those together. That should always work good, even without terminator.
If it does not, then check if FreeStyler is outputting DMX data. When starting FreeStyler it should always defaults to 512 channels being 0. You can check that in the Edit->Show output menu.
If all are zero and your fixture is still going crazy, then definately something is wrong with the interface, cable or fixture. Otherwise there is something wrong with FreeStyler wich I think is not the case.

[bumclouds]

Okay, I just got off the phone to a manager that used to work at my club. He set up all the lights before I started working there.

He said that the lights are configured like so.



And he also said we have a DMX controlled Dimmer for some of our lighting, inserted somwehre along the lines, but he can't remember where.. That is just for some chandeliers or something.

Does this kind of configuration pose a problem for Freestyler? or is this not apart of my problem...

[LJ_krede.dk]

did he say something about termination of each daisy chain?

I think you should also try to do the test remco_k told you about.

You should make a very small test setup. 1 DMX fixture, one short DMX cable, your computer and interface and connect those together. That should always work good, even without terminator.
If it does not, then check if FreeStyler is outputting DMX data. When starting FreeStyler it should always defaults to 512 channels being 0. You can check that in the Edit->Show output menu.
If all are zero and your fixture is still going crazy, then definately something is wrong with the interface, cable or fixture. Otherwise there is something wrong with FreeStyler wich I think is not the case.

It will help you to isolate the problem

[remco_k]

Okay, I just got off the phone to a manager that used to work at my club. He set up all the lights before I started working there.

He said that the lights are configured like so.



And he also said we have a DMX controlled Dimmer for some of our lighting, inserted somwehre along the lines, but he can't remember where.. That is just for some chandeliers or something.

Does this kind of configuration pose a problem for Freestyler? or is this not apart of my problem...

This is a completely normal DMX universe -- apart from the terminators (yes, 3 of them) that might be missing.
Please dive deeper into the problem like we've asked, otherwise you won't be able to figure it out.

[bumclouds]

Hey guys,

This is the latest update.

I've taken home one of the lighting fixtures home from the club, as well as the USB/DMX device, and a whole bunch of DMX cabling. The light is a Trackspot. URL

I installed the drivers for the USB/DMX device, installed Freestyler, hooked up the light, and voila!! It works!!!

But, it only works if I set the Address dip switch on Trackspot to 0 (bin: 0000 0000), and the address inside Freestyler to 1 (bin: 0000 0001). Whatever I do, I have to set the dip switches to be one value less than what I set inside freestyler to make it work. Wierd huh. If I set freestyer to the same value as the light, no cigar.


I'll take it back to the club and start a little daisy chain and see if I have any luck.

Andrew

[remco_k]

Hey guys,
But, it only works if I set the Address dip switch on Trackspot to 0 (bin: 0000 0000), and the address inside Freestyler to 1 (bin: 0000 0001). Whatever I do, I have to set the dip switches to be one value less than what I set inside freestyler to make it work. Wierd huh. If I set freestyer to the same value as the light, no cigar.

Thats normal for some/many(?) fixtures and has nothing to do with FreeStyler nor your interface.
Its even written down in the manual (although not in these words, but look at the table there...), found on the website that you've supplied.
Page 60.
http://www.highend.com/pub/products/aut ... /tsv41.pdf

Via this way of work they manage to have only 8 dip switches and still can set up from channel 1 to 512.
If they would use normally binary values, they would need 9 dip switches. Costing more money or something and channel setting 0 to 512 would be possible.
But, channel 0 does not exist. So that might be a second reason to do so as it is at your fixture.

So I think you have found the source of your wacky results. FreeStyler is addressed wrong (of your fixtures are, depends on the way you look at it).
Be carefull, not all fixtures using dip switches do it this way. Some fixtures DMX adressing have "real" binary values instead of "binary+1".

[remco_k]

Why oh why, do some companies do this or is it just poor quality control ?

I think the reason is that manufacturers of cheap equipment (not only fixtures) are not making the electronics themselves, but buy unbranded equipment parts or complete unbranded equipment from China (or so) then put on their brand and sell that under their name. This is very common for all kinds of equipment and explains why different models are sometimes so different from eachother.

[bumclouds]

Bad news guys,


After getting that Trackspot to work at home, I took it to work, and hooked it up directly to their lighting computer in exactly the same way, and it didn't work!! .

So pissed off!!

I'm assuming it must have something to do with my DMX/USB device or its drivers! It can't be anything else.

[remco_k]

You should really double check DMX addressing then. Both in FreeStyler and the Fixture.

[bumclouds]

Okay this is what's happening at the moment.




This is something I can't troubleshoot!! In both cases I have just got one single trackspot on the desktop, and it uses 7 channels, which is the correct amount. I have checked the addressing a few times, and that's all correct. But, using the work computer the trackspot just won't respond; light up, move around, etc. It gives off a soft hum though when freestyler boots, so it's getting something. I spent about 2 or 3 hours trying to find where the problem was but couldn't find it!


I am so sure this is something to do with the drivers. I read on another website that some users have trouble with the Enttec Open USB/DMX interface due to windows assuming its own drivers for the device, instead of the drivers off the installation CD. There are some instructions about how to manually uninstall those and then manually apply the proper drivers. I will do that, and then post again in about 24 hours to let you know what happens . My guess is that my home computer has applied the proper drivers for the Enttec and the club's lighting computer hasn't.

[remco_k]

Just to make sure: Except that computer everything else is exact the same?
The same cabling, USB DMX interface and the same trackspot, right?
Just another computer with its own software environment?

Lets turn it around: If you took your home computer to work and connect it there, all works fine in theory?

In that case it indeed should be something with the drivers for the Enttec or something is very wrong with the FreeStyler installation, but with the last option I doubt if something would go that wrong.

Maybe you should check the power sockets as well, if you have connected the fixture on another power group, then a ground loop can occur, interferencing with the DMX protocol, causing the fixture to do wacky.
Just plug the fixture on the same power group as the computer is, will make a good test for ruling this out.
You can even try disconnecting edge earth for testing only. (warning here: don't leave it disconnected - can be potential very dangerous!)

Other options for this problem can be the computers internal power supply or built in USB interface (been there, done that). Since all USB to DMX interfaces live on the computers power via USB, they could do weird when the power is not clean.
Maybe the power supply or the internal USB interface is bad.

Maybe there is a way to get another computer at work for a quick test if that works good?

I do hope you'll find the source of this strange problem, since if you don't I won't sleep anymore. I'm to curious now what is going wrong at your work.

[bumclouds]

SOLVED!!

It works!!! Wahoo! And it doesn't just work for one light, it works for the whole shebang!

The problem was pretty much what I was anticipating in my last post. Windows was assuming its own drivers for the USB/DMX device, even when I had run the installation wizard for the new drivers. When using the Enttec Open USB/DMX device you need to manually update to the new drivers from the Windows Device Manager, or it won't work properly.

You know you haven't got the right drivers if the device shows up as "USB Serial Converter" inside the Device Manager. It needs to show up as this -- "FTDI FT8U2XX Device". As per the below image.


******* The full instructions on how to override the drivers are right here on the Enttec support site: Click...



You can sleep now!!

[djSupport]

Onge maybe u sould add that dipswitche thing u said onto the dmx wiki for people...