FreeStyler & Pangolin MIDI?

[philld2013]

Hi,

I am a Pangolin laser software user who is trying to migrate to Freestyler to run the DMX portion of their light show. Pangolin has DMX support but unfortunately, it is very basic and my lighting rig has outgrown its functionality. I would really like to use Freestyler, but I still need to use Pangolin for its laser capabilities.

I believe I can use MIDI to trigger the laser cue's inside Pangolin, however I need to make freestyler send the appropriate MIDI signals. Ideally, I'd like to be able to build shows in FreeStyler, and send midi signals within each cue to trigger a laser animation in Pangolin.

Also, Pangolin uses a seperate ILDA interface to the laser so it's not using any DMX connection.

Does anyone know if this is possible or can assist?

[Spirit]

hi

i also use pangolin and never tried this before.
but I could be possible to use FS to send midi to Pangolin.

i also tried this last week for a other user, with the midi plugin for Winamp.
so i'm sure this can work..

you just need to have a Virtual Midi conection like Loopbe1 or Midi yoke.
i recommend Midi yoke as you need more then ONE Virtual midi conections and loopbe1 only have 1.

as Midi input use Midi yoke1 and for the ouput use Midi yoke2.
midi yoke1 will not be used anymore but FS needs a Input otherwise the midi options will not work.
now search for the Toggle button and add a NOTE (Use the Numpad to add the Note) you can use 0 to 127 for this.

now if you have done this FS will send a NOTE on the Midi ouput "0" OFF or "127" ON

so as example you have used Note 0 for the first toggle button.
FS wil send
B0 00 00 if button is unpressed.
B0 00 127 if the button is pressed.

and on pangolin you use Midi yoke 2 as you midi input.

Toggle button can be Seq1 ~20 Toggle, Cuelist 1~16, Overide button 1~30.

/spirit

[philld2013]

Thanks, I will give this a try and let you know how it goes.

[philld2013]

Hope you don't mind 1 more question. In Pangolin, I use the virtual LJ feature a lot. Is there a way to accomplish the same thing in Freestyler? or something similar?

[Spirit]

i'm no dj so i dont know how VDJ works.

but if i understand how midi works you can do allot with it.
just see it as a Keyboard, only with Midi you have 16 channels x 128 = 2048 notes and each note can have a Value of 0 to 127.

but there should be somewhere a FS plugin for VDJ.

/spirit

[philld2013]

Ok, I've been playing around with this for a few hours, and I cannot seem to get quick show to run a que on midi input. Quick Show does recognize midi input when the learn button is on in the midi setup menu (meaning that after I send a midi signal, the lean button switches off).

I also tried messing with the note on-off setting and flash toggle in freestyler. I have everything set as you suggested above.

In freestyler Input = Yoke1, Output = Yoke2
In Quickshow Input = Yoke2

I'm a little confused by the page setting but everything is set to page 1

I even tried setting the out put in QuicK Show to my sound card midi player hoping I would hear notes.....but nothing ...BUT if I use the virtual midi keyboard IN Quickshow and play notes, I am able to hear output.

Any idea what's going wrong?

[philld2013]

I did just made an interesting discovery. Quick Show is interpreting the midi output from Freestyler as Control Change commands. I have no idea if this is correct but I will do some miore digging.

[philld2013]

I loaded a virtual keyboard and connected the output to Yoke2. When Quick Show see's these notes they appart as "Note On" and "Note Off" commands. Any idea where i go from here?

[philld2013]

More Progress. I installed Mid-OX and played with data mappings. I think I'm on the right track here, though what I'm playing with makes me believe Note-On/Note-Off is NOT working correctly in FreeStyler. The MIDI monitor in MIDI-OX shows control change messages being output even when the Note-On Note-Off option is selcted in the midi setup.

Also.........I started playing with Midi to DMX....I didn't think this would work for my requirements however, it also works in reverse. You can actually set midi values from a DMX channel. So I need to setup a dummy DMX fixture and I should be able to include it in my FreeStyler Cue's and sequences and trigger laser cue's accordingly.

I'm still limited to 24 midi channels though (therefore 24 Quick show Cues) but it's more than what I would have gotten with cue toggle or override buttons. Unfortunatley, quick show will only respond to 1 midi note per que so unless I can add more Midi to DMX channels, I think I am stuck on being able to use more than 24 laser cues. Intrestingly though, I can turn on VLJ within Pangolin and make it go through all cue's in 1 page, problem there is, it wouldn't be sync'd with the DMX shows.

Sucks that this has to be so damn complicated.

[Spirit]

hi your right its also possible with Midi to DMX.

and i see a Solution for your only to be able to have 24 laser cues.
because midi to DMX can have a Value from 0 to 127.
so this means you can trigger 24x128= 3038 midi command if you do it like this.

this also means you need a other software "Bome's midi translator"
and you need to connect the virtual midi connection like this.

Midi yoke1 Input (FS) Midi yoke 2 output -> Midi yoke 2 input (BomeMT) Midi yoke 3 ouput -> Midi yoke 3 input (Pangolin).

now as example you have Note 0 to 23 for midi to dmx.
this means you still have 103 notes left. (but if you have Midi thru OFF on Bomes mt you can use all 127 notes)
now with Bome'sMT you can change / create new note's.

so if
FS send B0 00 00 - > bomeMT creates B0 25 127
FS send B0 00 30 -> bomeMT creates B0 26 127
FS send B0 00 60 -> bomeMT creates B0 27 127
FS send B0 00 90 -> bomeMT creates B0 28 127
FS send B0 00 120 -> bomeMT creates B0 29 127

FS send B0 01 00 -> bomeMT creates B0 30 127
FS send B0 01 30 -> bomeMT creates B0 31 127
FS send B0 01 60 -> bomeMT creates B0 32 127
FS send B0 01 90 -> bomeMT creates B0 33 127
FS send B0 01 120 -> bomeMT creates B0 34 127

(this is made is DECIMAL, BomesMT needs Hexidecimals)
(and therse a Freeversion of Bomes MT and you will fitt your needs)

also be sure Multi CUE is OFF on pangolin otherwise the midi signals will trigger 2 laser cue's

/spirit

[Spirit]

hi i have also been tring to get this working but i noticed something.

because if i run a Seq. the midi ouput stops so i wonder.
how did you like to do this?

/spirit

[philld2013]

I haven't tried running in a sequence yet, I just got it working early AM so I'm going to play more tomorrow. I also noticed that you have to use Note-On 127 to turn the laser cue on, then Note-On 127 to turn it off again.

Does your work the same way? If so, I don't know why switching sequences would turn the laser animation off. It should loop until you switch laser cue's or start another one.

[Spirit]

the problem i have is i cant assing a Midi note to a Animation..
they allready seem to have a fixed note but where can you find this..
or do you need to find this the hard way. monitor it on midiox?

but still in the end how do you like to have it all?

/spirit

[philld2013]

I don't understand the last question.

I've discovered that you can't assign a midi note to a cue in quickshow, you can only set the starting note, then the que's follow in sequence. I don't think you can even switch cue pages via midi, only specify which page the midi commands will go to.

This is the last day I will really get to spend much time on it as I have to go back to work tomorrow. Hopefully, we can figure this out.

[philld2013]

I didn't get the chance to play around with this anymore. I have a huge show coming up in 2 weeks and I added 8 new fixtures to my lighting rig that require programming. SAo I've decided to stay with Pangolin for now. There are 3 main issues that I really needed to resolve.

Triggering Pangolin Cue's from Freestyler
Being able to merge cue's in Freestyer (in Pangolin, I build show for a particular group of lights 1 at a time then merge them in the timeline). I have so many fixtures now, I can't just build 1 entire show in 1 cue, it would take me wayy too long.
I have to have the some kind of Virtual LJ in freestyler like they have in Pangolin. I am not a club nor do I have a dedicated DJ/LJ who can press buttons all night. Virtual LJ triggers light show cues for you and it works pretty well.

Sadly, until I can get theres features, I don't think freestyler will be useful to me.

However, I do like a lot of things about it, and in many ways, it's easier to initially program shows in Freestyler vs Pangolin.

[mortenx]

what buttons you are using, my quickshow sees only B00C7F .. doesnt matter what i am pushing in FS..

and if midi signal is sent from FS then toggle button(Toggle cuelist1) dont activate in FS