Freestyler use for live band.

[goldtop]

Putting together a light system for a 5-piece band doing small weekender gigs. Lighting consists of Elation led Tri-pars, and incandescent PARS on dimmer packs.

Looking for control software that will allow me to preprogram scenes to songs, and arrange songs into sets. We add new songs and rearrange sets all the time, so I need to be able to make such adjustments without too much hassle. Once a song is programmed, its in the can and I don't have to worry about it anymore.

On a gig, want it to be simple “go” commands from the set list, to drive lighting. Need to be able to support operation from the user console or as a series of MIDI program change commands (e.g., program patches as “go forward”, “go reverse”, “stop”, and “blackout”), since we won't always have a light jockey.

Does Freestyler support that kind of operation? I've played around with it enough to create some basic scenes and chases. I can't get cues to auto-sequence - just doesn't seem possible. Played around with Submasters too, but cues do not auto-progress - you have to click "go" to increment and then "run" to get the change to occur. Looked at GoMonkey - clever, but writing a bunch of XML code in order to get a show going is not what I had in mind.

Any ideas? Really trying to adopt FreeStyler, but I have not yet found the solution I was looking for.

[Mattotone]

I think the go monkey is currently the best ul get.
The idea is that each song iS a separate xml file.
When I get back from hols Il change the song list into an ordered set lists


The xml is a pain but is flexible and only has to be done once.
There should be a GUI in the works.

[Hambone]

Looking for control software that will allow me to preprogram scenes to songs, and arrange songs into sets. We add new songs and rearrange sets all the time, so I need to be able to make such adjustments without too much hassle. Once a song is programmed, its in the can and I don't have to worry about it anymore.

I have a similar situation in my band, where more often than not we don't have a lighting monkey. We have experimented with setting up song-specific sequences. What we've found is that while it's fine to set up specific looks, synchronizing "hits" and other effects will be damn near impossible unless you're playing to a click track - even the most solid drummers will tend to sway a little, and there's no guarantee that you'll always play the songs at exactly the right tempo - while the tap tempo feature can help, it will almost never be even "close enough".

On a gig, want it to be simple “go” commands from the set list, to drive lighting. Need to be able to support operation from the user console or as a series of MIDI program change commands (e.g., program patches as “go forward”, “go reverse”, “stop”, and “blackout”), since we won't always have a light jockey.

As for the programming aspect, I would recommend setting up a cuelist button for each song. To get the MIDI to work properly using program changes instead of notes, you will need to use MIDIOX to do the translation. I use an ART X-15 UltraFoot controller (10 patch change buttons, a bypass button on MC127, and two pedals (don't remember the controller numbers). I've set the blackout function in Freestyler to respond to the bypass controller, then use MIDIOX to do a direct translation from program change to MIDI note value (i.e. Program Change 5 received outputs MIDI note 5). This works very well for what we're doing, YMMV. Now for how to do that:

1. In MIDIOX, go to Options -> Data Mapping
2. Click Insert
3. Under When Input matches: set the following values:
Channel: Any
Event Type: ProgChg
Min Patch #: 0
Max Patch #: 127
Leave Pass original value unchecked
4. Under Set Output to: set the following values:
Channel: Match Input
Event Type: NoteOn
Min Note #: 0
Max Note #: 127
Min Velocity: 127
Max Velocity: 127
Delay: 0
Use Input value 2 (Pull): Unchecked
Use Input value 1 (Pull): Checked
5. Click OK
6. Click Insert again to create a second mapping
7. Under When Input matches: set the following values:
Channel: Any
Event Type: NoteOn
Min Note #: -1
Max Note #: -1
Min Velocity: -1
Max Velocity: -1
Leave Pass original value unchecked
8. Under Set Output to: set the following values:
Channel: Match Input
Event Type: NoteOff
Min Note #: -1
Max Note #: -1
Min Velocity: -1
Max Velocity: -1
Delay: 250
Use Input value 2 (Pull): Checked
Use Input value 1 (Pull): Checked
9. Click OK
10. Make sure Turn Map On (after OK) is checked, then click OK

Now you're all set, just make sure MIDIOX is running, then start FreeStyler, go to Settings -> External Control -> MIDI and set up your note mappings - for example, I have MIDI Note 9 (translated from Program Change 9, which is button 10 on my controller) to start CueList Button 1 (our default autopilot sequence).

[goldtop]

Thanks for the response all.

Hambone, you're absolutely right. My drummer is just rock solid, but the music moves with the vibe somewhat, as it always will, so its never going to be perfect tempo.

We don't want to hook ourselves up to a click track, I don't think. Its guitar-oriented rock, so there are no synthesizers or sequencers on stage. The approach I outlined was supposed to solve that problem for me - the cues are manually triggered by a "go" pedal on a MIDI footswitch (I use an old Boss FC-50, to trigger patch changes in my rig). The idea was to pre-program the scenes for each song, and just cue through them using the footswitch. Chases can be pre-programmed and probably be close enough for what we're doing.

So, I'm not looking to fully automate the show. I'm looking to fully automate the setup beforehand, such that all we have to do on stage is hit the "go" button to advance scenes. If we decide to improvise an extra couple of measures, then we just delay advancing the cue.

One cuelist per song made sense to me too -That was the path I was pursuing. I haven't figured out yet how to automatically load the next cuelist - what I really need is a list of cuelists (i.e., the set list), so I can select the next one from a footswitch. Its like you need two go buttons: one to advance to the next song, and then one to advance through the cues during that song. Maybe it doesn't have to be that structured, but it needs to be more than forty songs worth of scene changes in one cue list. The GoMonkey isn't quite there yet either, because while you can pre-program each song as an XML file, you cannot automate the loading of the songs in any particular order.

Question for you... when I run the cuelists using Submasters, I have to click between "Run" and "Go" in order to get scene changes to progress and execute. That's TWO clicks when one really should be all that is necessary - that matters when its a footswitch action. How are you solving that problem? Maybe I'm not using the software correctly, but I have a cue with a series of scenes (sequences) in it for each song. I can't figure out how to automate the progression of scenes in a cue - that's what I want to automate with a MIDI footswitch. I can't get scenes to automatically follow one another at all. If I assign a cue to a button and click the button, it only runs the last scene in the cue.

[LJ_krede.dk]

i really think you should reconsidder the FS Go Monkey (multi). To me it sounds like that would fulfil all your whishes. you make a xml file for each song and choose in the program which song you are playing and using the footswtich to change "looks". Two things FS Go Monkey needs is to automatically go to next song/XML file (or by midi) and have the ability to change the order of the songs/XML files in the set list (a workaround is to rename the files so ther have numbers in the beginning.

if you need to manipulate the MIDI signals from your footswitch (e.g to to go to next sequence in the submaster and run it by on press in the footswitch) I will suggest MIDIOX

[Silentq2]

This thread is exactly what I've been looking for! My band is also trying to go down this road we recently got some scanners and dimmer packs and are trying to become a little more self contained. We've been working with Freestyler for about a month now trying to get it all sorted, we've got a few cues worked up and have had to keep the laptop on stage and reach over and start it with some keyboard shortcuts.... not exactly the smoothest way to get it done. So we've procured an old ART X-11 (super basic but built like a tank footswitch) we then shortly realized that it wasn't sending the proper info to talk to FS. The MidiOX info above was a godsend, however I'm still having a little problem with it, hopefully someone can help. I've set up MidiOX as suggested above and right now I'm getting the "program change" to look like a "Note On" at the output but not the delayed "Note Off". I've tried a bunch of variations and I guess/hope I'm just missing something any ideas would be appreciated.

I also wanted to suggest something that might help out fellow band types. My experience is a bit limited, not having too much time with the program and a lot of it has been tied up in trying to work out a control solution, so if someone knows more or doesn't think this would work please chime in. But how I wanted to proceed was program individual songs as a cuelist break them down into "parts" Intro, Verse, Chorus.... each section having it's own sequence and then when they are loaded into the "cue switcher" use the "scheduler" to go through the parts. For example if I know a song has an Intro that goes for 30sec. I program or loop a sequence for that time then the scheduler jumps to the Verse or whatever at a set time.... On through the song. If you have a section in the song that you know you stretch out a bit let the last sequence loop indefinitely and then have a song "part II" cuelist on a separate button that you can kick in at the appropriate time. It wouldn't be a dead on thing unless you're playing to a click but if you're fairly consistent and a little loose with the programming of spots on solos or singing I imagine you could put together something that would work pretty well. You also wouldn't be tied to that footswitch for anything other than the beginning and end of songs. Might not be a solution for everybody but it's the route I'm going to try to go with unless somebody yells stop and shows me the folly of my ways.

-Brian

[Mattotone]

again this is what the goMonkey was designed for.
It allows set lists, each song in a set list is broken into parts, which can trigger after a time delay or wait until you press go.
But they you can also set the other options such as Loop or singleShot, Random, Fade, and RestoreValues.

Your current option only easily allows 20 cues in a song. Go Monkey is unlimited.
If you want to run multiple cues at a time(again eating your 20 cues) it will be multiple button presses and you have to remember the order and which cues to run. Go Monkey does this in one click allows upto 20cues to run at the same time. But only shows as one line in the stack which you can name as anything.
having to stop and run your cues manually can interrupt your shows timing and your Playing if you were to do it using a mouse, or eat precious midi channels(one per cue). Go Monkey is one single click, keyboard press or midi channel.
The only real downside is the XML, it is flexible and relatively easy but is time consuming.

I have updates the software to allow loading of the next songList automatically.

[Hambone]

This thread is exactly what I've been looking for! My band is also trying to go down this road we recently got some scanners and dimmer packs and are trying to become a little more self contained. We've been working with Freestyler for about a month now trying to get it all sorted, we've got a few cues worked up and have had to keep the laptop on stage and reach over and start it with some keyboard shortcuts.... not exactly the smoothest way to get it done. So we've procured an old ART X-11 (super basic but built like a tank footswitch) we then shortly realized that it wasn't sending the proper info to talk to FS. The MidiOX info above was a godsend, however I'm still having a little problem with it, hopefully someone can help. I've set up MidiOX as suggested above and right now I'm getting the "program change" to look like a "Note On" at the output but not the delayed "Note Off". I've tried a bunch of variations and I guess/hope I'm just missing something any ideas would be appreciated.

Brian, did you create the second mapping as I described in steps 6 - 8? That second mapping is what sends the note off after a 250ms delay.

Question for you... when I run the cuelists using Submasters, I have to click between "Run" and "Go" in order to get scene changes to progress and execute. That's TWO clicks when one really should be all that is necessary - that matters when its a footswitch action. How are you solving that problem? Maybe I'm not using the software correctly, but I have a cue with a series of scenes (sequences) in it for each song. I can't figure out how to automate the progression of scenes in a cue - that's what I want to automate with a MIDI footswitch. I can't get scenes to automatically follow one another at all. If I assign a cue to a button and click the button, it only runs the last scene in the cue.

You could try adding a third and fouth mapping doing the same thing but sending a different note value, so for example Program Change 1 would send Note 1 On, then Note 1 Off, then Note 2 On then Note 2 Off. You would then assign Submaster 1 Go to Note 1, and Submaster 1 Run to Note 2, and it should work. Of course you'll have to modify the mappings a little bit to make it work... If you need further help, let me know

And I think Mattotone is on to something with GoMonkey, it sounds like it might be exactly what you're looking for once you get the XML stuff figured out. I haven't played with it myself (though I'm going to have to now but it sounds like a very useful utility for this situation.

[Silentq2]

Thanks Hambone! I did everything as you suggested but it just wasn't working for me so what I did was use the "clone" function and pass the program change through twice. One transform goes Program change -> Note On then a second goes Program change -> Note Off with 250ms delay and that seems to work perfectly. So my control problems seem to be solved! Now just got to get to wrapping my head around this Go Monkey and I think I'll be set. Thanks for all the help everybody! I'm sure I'll be back as I work on getting Go Monkey up and running for us.

-Brian

Hambone we got to figure out a way to hang out! Ibanez players in 80's bands rule! We're almost working the same area too... (I'm with Velveeta out of State College, PA) Weird.

[goldtop]

Where in the Freestyler directory structure does GoMonkey(Multi) have to be located? Where do the accompanying XML files need to be? I placed both in the Freestyler directory (after unsuccessfully trying a subdirectory within Freestyler), and kept getting "file not found" errors when referring to the cues I already have defined in Freestyler.

Also, looking for the new version of Multi - that one that automatically increments to next set list.

Thanks.

[Mattotone]

Go Monkey can go anywhere, even your desktop. The xml files should be in the same directory as Go Monkey.
File not found, is probably due to incorrect nameing. check spelling and case and note that.chb is not required.

The latest go monkey can be found at the 1st post of this topic.