Velleman K8062/VM116

[dj_seti]

Dear All,

I run Windows XP;
A friend (not using Freestyler but his own home made tool) lended me his Vellman k8062 for a few days to test my DMX stuffs with it;

There are some times where I can use freestyler normally; usually a crash force me to quit;
Then I can only address the 8 first DMX channels (or maybe 7?);
everything else plugged on the chain won't get data;

Vellman demo software works. and can address all 512 channels (no reboot or dmx disconnection is necessary it just simply work);

I tested with both 2.95f and 2.96i and got same results;

I re-installed freestyler too, same issue;

I tryed to reboot, cold boot, unplug/replug the dmx interface, I am not always sure to get the controll over channels again; I am investigating this point;

I am sure that the devices plugged are OK, there are moving heads and scanners, all having same problem: whatever is after channel 8 does not work (same as no datas); changing address of scanners (IE inverting the two scanners addresses) makes the one addressed between 1-5 work;
I tryed with and without 120 Ohms termination;

Anyone experienced this or similar issue ?


-edit- added details
-edit- k8062 and not K6082

[djSupport]

what are your lights? some lights require pins 2 and 3 of a three pin xlr plug to be reversed then if you have lights after that light that works the normal way you'd need to reverse it again...

[dj_seti]

This is not a dmx cable issue;
I exchanged the cables of the two scans: one is addressed between 1-5 and the second from 9-13;
The one addressed from 9 to 13 has the same issue even if it is the first in the chain, and the other scan works nice;
I reversed the addresses of the two scans, always the one addressed from 9 to 13 has a problem;
Of course, addressing both on 1-5 fixes the problem, but I do not want both scans to be sync all the time...
(and then I have the moving heads to play with..)
Really, the vellman tool allows me to change values for high channels;

It really looks like a software issue;

PS: is there any kind of initialisation in the vellman code ?

Can I download an older version to test ?

[djSupport]

if your on the beta try the stable release although I can assure you your currently the only person with this problem and both the beta and stable have been out a long time so it could be the vellemen playing up (they are supplied in kit form so who ever built it may have built it wrong etc etc) although thats not for sure it could happen!

[dj_seti]

As I said in first message, both beta and stable have same issue;

What is strange is that my friend uses his kit without issues, and the vellman demo software perfectly assigns what is on the higher channels..

We will freestyler on his setup and let you know.

[djSupport]

ok please do

[Plasma]

I have the K8062 and am using it through FreeStyler without a problem. I built the kit my self and must say it was pretty straight forward to put together.

I'm controlling 4 x 5 channel Eurolite LED PAR 64's, a SoundLab 4 channel Dimmer Pack, and an Antari Smoke Machine with ID's starting at 1 and going up to 24 for the lights , and the Smoke machine on channel 120.

I've never experienced any of the symptoms you are describing with either the stable or the new beta.

Plasma

[DOB]

I wrote a program in VB and used to have the same problem.
I added the line

SetChannelCount(512)

after the line

StartDevice()

function.
Now it outputs data to all 512 channels.

If this does not work I haven't any more Ideas.

[djmattd]

everytime I fire up freestyler (using version 'j' on vista) I get an error message saying invalid call or argument, freestyler then loads but won't control any lights!

[Johan]

Hi,

Did you find a solution to the original problem with only 5-8 channels with output?

I seem to have the same problem on my laptop (running Windows XP Professional SP3). On my desktop everything works as it should i.e there's nothing wrong with the VM116 HW and nothing wrong with my device files.

I found one program on the internet that tests the output on all 512 channels and if I run that program in the background while I have the LightPlayer running everything works but as soon as I close the test program LightPlayer (or DMXDControl) stop to work and only give output on the first 8 channels.

In the source code Unit1.pas (used when building k8062e) I can see the following code:

if GetShareData(0)=333 then close;
max_ch:=GetShareData(2);
if max_ch<8 then max_ch:=8;
if max_ch>512 then max_ch:=512;

(My guess) It seems like the GetShareData(2) always return something less than 8 even if I have Devices that makes use of more than 8 channels.

Does anyone have the same problem or know what to do to solve the problem?

Thanks!

/Johan

[remco_k]

As this is an old topic describing pre-historic problems on pre-historic versions of FS, you should note here what version of FS you are using. If its a pre-historic version, please update to a new version.

Furthermore I've used the K8062 a pretty long time, pretty intensive. Found several really bad problems with it. (Hardware as well as software, I did a complete driver rewrite myself but could'nt fix failures of hardware...). But never ever had a situation like people describe here. So that tells me it might be the pre-historic version of FS is the source of the problem.

Also check the K8062.exe. One comes with FreeStyler (as I can remember though) and one is installed in the Windows path. Maybe one of the 2 is bad.

[Mike Vaghur]

I have an Velleman K8062/VM116 about half of a year and always encounter a problems with this interface from FS versions 3.01 through 3.3.2.
The issues are next: when I start FS with K8062 connected - program often crashes or hang-up during start (at about 85% of a starting progress bar). And to restart FS I have to shut down a process K8062.exe in Task Manager.
So, when I connect K8062 after FS started, DMX output LED blinking and everything works BUT I see some jitter in scanners positioning (and sometimes on another channels). Furthermore FS works with K8062 VERY unstable - it often hangs-up or crashes (especially when actively using keyb shortcuts, or editing and trying to save some edited Seq's in Offline mode during CUE's run).
PS: Why keyb shortcuts so slow at reaction?

[Notebook ASUS F3Ja (2Gb RAM), Windows XP SP3 Home, FS 3.3.2. Interface Velleman K8062 (factory assembled) ]

[remco_k]

PS: Why keyb shortcuts so slow at reaction?

The keyboard shortcuts aren't slow. The VM116/K8062 is.
This and every other problem you described is the consequence of Vellemans bad design of the VM116/K8062 hardware and driver. Wanna know all of it? Search for posts of me and the VM116/K8062 in this forum and you'll learn everything about this crappy device (especially this post). You'll also learn there's only one solution: buy another (better) interface. The world becomes a better place then.

[LJ_krede.dk]

The issues are next: when I start FS with K8062 connected - program often crashes or hang-up during start (at about 85% of a starting progress bar). And to restart FS I have to shut down a process K8062.exe in Task Manager.
So, when I connect K8062 after FS started, DMX output LED blinking and everything works BUT I see some jitter in scanners positioning (and sometimes on another channels). Furthermore FS works with K8062 VERY unstable - it often hangs-up or crashes (especially when actively using keyb shortcuts, or editing and trying to save some edited Seq's in Offline mode during CUE's run).

This and every other problem you described is the consequence of Vellemans bad design of the VM116/K8062 hardware and driver.

@ remco_k: so what you are saying is that FS crashing using this interface is not a bug in FS itself but caused by the interface and not worth to investigate further?

Why keyb shortcuts so slow at reaction?

The keyboard shortcuts aren't slow. The VM116/K8062 is.

@ Mike: you can verify this by trying shortcuts with another Interface

[Mike Vaghur]

So, does it possible to work with this interface without headache if obtain a new drivers (and does anyone has it?) or it looks like I pissed away about 150 bucks for Velleman?

[remco_k]

@ remco_k: so what you are saying is that FS crashing using this interface is not a bug in FS itself but caused by the interface and not worth to investigate further?

Yes, saying that. I did that 'further' investigation already. The K8062.exe crashes. Not FreeStylers fault, and can't be solved nicely by FreeStyler either.

Why keyb shortcuts so slow at reaction?

The keyboard shortcuts aren't slow. The VM116/K8062 is.

@ Mike: you can verify this by trying shortcuts with another Interface

He does'nt need to verify that with another interface. In the past I did plenty of tests showing the VM116/K8062 is the problem.
But if Mike wants, he can just have a look at the show output screen and see that the output values does respond fast and that the VM116/K8062's output lags a long time behind that.
Now I'm not saying that its impossible that FreeStyler is the source of the slow response problem. But since a VM116/K8062 is used, its obvious to me that that kit is the source of the problem.

So, does it possible to work with this interface without headache if obtain a new drivers (and does anyone has it?) or it looks like I pissed away about 150 bucks for Velleman?

The driver is the least of your problem. The interface being way to slow is the biggest of your problem. And regardless of the driver, the interface remains slow. Always.
There's one way of getting it 'faster' and thats shrinking the number of used DMX channels and keeping most channels at value 0. A new driver won't come out I think, because it would not really make a big difference.
So yes, in my opinion a 150 bucks are wasted. Thats why I got rid of the damn thing and bought an Enttec USB DMX Pro. (150 bucks seems a lot to me though, I can remember buying the K8062 kit (to build yourself) for about €70,-)
But if you are using just 8 channels the VM116/K8062 would run fast enough though. For small setups this interface is "usable", but not scaleable.

[Mike Vaghur]

Ok guys! I've got it! (cause later I'd saw remco_k's message at Velleman support forum with complete explanation [here http://forum.velleman.eu/viewtopic.php? ... 018&p=7771 ]. So I suppose, too, that the only salvation is to update a firmware of a "box" (but it's possible If anyone could have an original microcode and full schematic (and I don't think Velleman will propose it).
But I can't wait for it! Well, now I'm planing to sale my VM116 for a some small architecture light project and buy (or make by myself) some of ENttec interfaces (I've used it most early before, but sold it out).
Thanks everyone for help!!!

[Johan]

Ok so there seems to be a lot of different problems with the VM116 but is there no one on the forum that can suggest what I shall do to solve my specific problem with only 5-8 channels with output?

In addition to what I wrot in my previou post I can mention that the VM116 worked as it should the first time I installed it on the laptop ( used it several times without turning of the comuter) but the next day when I restarted the laptop the problem was there.

I have removed all file related to VM116, lightplayer, dmxcontrol etc from the computer (including manual cleanup in regedit (Windows Registry)) and then reinstalled it again. Nothing helped! The problem remains.

I reinstalled it with exctly the same files as I use on my desktop where everything works as it should.

/Johan

[JAylmer]

If you SetChannels(512) and then StartDevice() then you get 7 or 8 channels only that produce output.
Reverse the order StartDevice() first and then SetChannels(512) and you get 512 channels

Setting the Channels count before starting the device does nothing so you are rewarded only with the default 8 channels. Win7(64bit). JohnA

[JTR]

Greetings, and welcome this lurker to his first post.

Thank-you, thank-you. Takes bow and gets on with the show....

Just a heads-up on the velleman 8062. I have a clean room firmware update that works at FULL SPEED USB. It is up to 80x faster than the factory firmware (LOW SPEED only.)

Without any alterations to existing supporting software my new firmware is 10x faster by virtue of being a HIGH SPEED HID device. (One packet, or output report, every 1ms Vs one every 10ms for LOW SPEED HID).

To gain the additional 8X throughput requires software that is aware of the 64-byte buffer (HIGH SPEED) Vs the maximum 8-byte buffer that LOW SPEED allows.

Currently I am in the testing stage and if there is anyone who is interested in helping out and getting the firmware update sent to them in good faith that they will provide feedback, please feel free to contact me. This is not vaporware nor some far off notion that I'm "gunna" do.

Currently I am doing extended testing using the "vixen" software as it allowed me to use my own DLL plug-in driver and bypass the existing velleman software. I have also done basic testing with freestyler and some other software and it works out of the box in "legacy mode." (10x speed increase.)

Later I hope that the full 64-byte mode (with extended commands and options) can be incorperated into freestyler.

While I have not been able to get vixen to send 512 slots at 44Hz (the absolute maximum), it does happily churn away with 64 channels at 100Hz update. I have not tested in between 64 channels and 512 at this time but I expect that the results will be good.

This firmware contains a bootloader so that even if it is NQR (Not Quite Right) first time around or I wish to add hardware faders, adjustable timings or whatever, it can be updated from the comfort of your own home.

I posted a rather long and more technical post on the diy christmas forum here:

http://doityourselfchristmas.com/forums ... -k8062-...

Please feel free to contact me if you see that this could be useful to you. Like I said I'm looking for testers so genuinely interested people here is a chance for both of us.

[matt]

i would be interested in this.

[JTR]

Thanks for the offers of assistance that have been posted and PM'ed to me.

A quick update and how I hope this will unfold.

The update requires a new firmware chip. You remove the old one and simply plug in the new one. For the few beta testers I will send (at my cost) the firmware chip. These chips are "in the mail" to me and I expect them this week. (However the last time I ordered from this supplier they were dishonest about having parts ready to ship. I don't much like that sort of thing...)

For use with freestyler only the chip is required and at this time freestyler only supports the 10x legacy mode. The idea is to create a sufficient user base so as to make it worthwhile for Raphael to include the new interface in a future release of freestyler. (Basically and for the most add 0x60 in front of the existing Velleman commands and use a 64-byte HID report, very simple!)

For beta testers to be able to update the firmware requires a Windows based PC. There is both a C# .NET GUI and a command line app written in C++ to do this.

In the end this firmware chip does not even require the Velleman and has nothing really to do with Velleman. Anyone can build a USB-DMX interface using it, a crystal, 5 or so caps a USB connector an RS485 interface chip and a hand full of resistors and get a 512 channel fully buffered, firmware timed BREAK, MAB etc (based on RDM timing specs) for way less than an off the shelf "open" FTDI based VCP driven unit. Anyway that is stage two.

I will be in touch again this week as soon as I find out the status of the chip delivery. In the meantime I need addresses of where I will be shipping these out to so please PM these to me and on the understanding that I expect feedback and may call on you for some assistance as I do not have a load of DMX gear. Only what I roll for myself at this time. Hey it's way cheaper! Have soldering iron will burn fingers!

Thanks again!

JTR

[JTR]

Just a quick update. Working is going ahead well but interleaved with other duties. There is a partly written wiki on the open DMX site here.http://opendmx.net/index.php/Velleman_K8062_Upgrade

I will add more soon. Thanks to Simon Newton of OLA fame for his interest and assistance.

The update chips have arrived and I am doing to final port from my hardware to the exact Velleman hardware. There are little details to resolve like working the LEDs and the methods of selecting legacy 8-byte mode and Full speed 64-byte mode etc. The devil is always in the detail.

Sadly, my efforts to recompile the existing Velleman software from their source code have come to nought. I was able to get the HID component (package) compiled and loaded in Delphi but I cannot see to work out what I need for the FastTime component. A tremendous pity as all that was otherwise required was the alteration of 8-byte chunks to 64-byte chunks and then any and all DMX software that uses the existing Velleman DLLs would have become fully compatible without the need for my custom HID driver.

I may take another look or ask around on Delphi forums as this is the ideal solution. Failing that I have a cross platform HID component written in C++ that perhaps I can modify. Sadly I am an assembler guru all out to sea with this HLL stuff.

The good news is that the firmware has shown itself to work faultlessly at 512 non zero channels @ 40 updates per second. From a Velleman (mock-up!). Who would of thought.

[Mike Vaghur]

Thanks JTR for a regular news and updates for Velleman K8062/VM116!

I've read a wiki and have a question: if I have an K8062/VM116 with PIC18F2550 chip on board already, could I reflash it with firmware update or Velleman has protected it from updates (re-burned EEPROM write access) so I need a new chip?

Thanks.
Mike

[JTR]

Hi Mike,

Yes it has come to my attention that later k8062s have the PIC18F2550 on board. Yes these can be reprogrammed via a PIC programmer. The Velleman code is probably protected but that does not stop anyone reprogramming the chip. It can be erased fully. What it will prevent is a roll back to the native velleman code.

That is one thing to keep in mind. There are also other issues here for me in particular to address as I had wrongly assumed that the chip would need replacing outright and I would be supplying the chips at low cost given that I can buy them in bulk for somewhat less than the going price I may have been able to subsidize the disability pension I live on and slowly build up a portfolio of USB and DMX devices and get of it completely.

Now I am torn as to what to do. Several parties connected to Velleman (but I stress not Velleman) somewhat "misappropriated" code I wrote previously and there is a very ugly history here. Now I bet they know exactly who I am. I remember them too...

The minute I start sending of hex files to people will be the minute that these large companies, will take my code, reprogram there stock and possibly up their selling price boasting that THEY created this update. Like I said, ugly history....

Anyway, here is some GREAT NEWS! It appears to me that I have succeeded in my rewrite of the native Velleman software! This means that any and all DMX software that relies on the Velleman DLLs and EXE file will work natively with my firmware and even be backward compatible with the existing Velleman firmware.

I have optimized the algorithm used and it can be up 350% of the speed of the current software / firmware pair under some circumstances with only my software rewrite. Even so that is not enough to get realistic performance out of the k8062. It is only a start.

It does however solve some big issues. It means that Freestlyer (and all other supporting windows software) will gain the FULL advantage of my firmware without having to be rewritten and it takes care of the VID/PID issue as I really cannot be using Velleman's without permission.

This development has delayed the release of the firmware a little but it has shortened the total time it will take to get the whole scope of this project fully realized.

I will do a little more testing to be sure that I have all my ducks in a row and then release the new EXE and DLL file then the firmware in some form or another.

Thanks for your interest and I hope interested parties stay tune as there is more to come in a timely fashion. Something existing k8062 owners have been waiting for...