Support Forum

First of all, THANK YOU for writing such great software. As a developer myself, I know how much of a thankless job is it and I just want to say I appreciate your efforts.

Secondly, my suggestion/request for the next revision would be more cue page tabs. I have found that I was really happy using them to preset band songs as things like "Intro" and "Guitar Solo", etc, but when I'd programmed 6 songs, I was unable to add more tabs. It would be great if there was a larger limit, like 99 or even 999 or something, even coming as a default of 6 and being able to set more in the .INI file like when setting more available steps in cue programming.

Thanks! And once again, great job!

- Craig "DJC"
http://www.facebook.com/DJC.Peoria

Yes - I second that suggestion!
I have exactly the same issue...

Sounds like you guys aren't using your sequences and cues to their full potential. Create one sequence per song. Add 20 song sequences to a cue and save to button. There are 8 buttons per page and 6 tabs. So there are already 48 cues at your disposal, each containing 20 sequences. That's 960 song sequences available to you. Use the Override buttons for shinning moving heads, scanners or whatever for "guitar solo", "drum solo", etc. Don't waste a whole cue just for these type scenes.

If you learn to use the submaster, you will have alternative ways of programming too.

use the go monkey its the exact reason it was created and is not limited to 20 cues per page

Shannon D wrote:Sounds like you guys aren't using your sequences and cues to their full potential. Create one sequence per song. Add 20 song sequences to a cue and save to button. There are 8 buttons per page and 6 tabs. So there are already 48 cues at your disposal, each containing 20 sequences. That's 960 song sequences available to you. Use the Override buttons for shinning moving heads, scanners or whatever for "guitar solo", "drum solo", etc. Don't waste a whole cue just for these type scenes.

If you learn to use the submaster, you will have alternative ways of programming too.

are we talking about the cue list buttons? Yo have 16 buttons on each page. about programing one song per sequence... i find that very difficult if you want running chases, and movement. also, when you actvate a cuelist buttons, all sequences in the cue will be activated at the same time, so you cant have 20 songs in one cue. or am i'm missing something

Mattotone wrote:use the go monkey its the exact reason it was created and is not limited to 20 cues per page

When Go Monkey adds an interface to add cues and such I'll gladly use it, but until then, it's an incomplete program.

Shannon D wrote:Don't waste a whole cue just for these type scenes.

Sounds like you're missing the point of lighting design if you're just using an override button for a drum solo. My current "standard" drum solo routine slowly fades all the overhead pars to black, fades up two up-lights then when they hit 100% strobes them in white while it kicks up 8 movers around the stage doing various twists and turns. Can an override button do that? If so, I'm ready to look into override buttons again!

The basic cue system is fine if you're just using pars or something, and not a whole lot of fixtures, but if I'm doing complex moving scenes and such, it doesn't work. If I have my pars on a 4-count loop, I don't want my movers to move on the beat also. I want them to free-float as I see fit. Well, using the best-case scenario there's two separate cue buttons on a cue-list, and that's just getting started. The override buttons are GREAT for things like strobes, or when you're running more generic light shows and you can program things like "Stage Left Highlight" to brighten up a guitarist or something, but when you get more complex, or have shows where things are synced, it just doesn't cut it. That's where more pages come in handy.

I LOVE (repeat LOVE) Freestyler. It has been a help to me like you can't believe. Those big $1000+ packages can suck it. And this is, by no means, a deal breaker, but it would just be nice to have.

LJ_krede.dk wrote: are we talking about the cue list buttons? Yo have 16 buttons on each page. about programing one song per sequence... i find that very difficult if you want running chases, and movement. also, when you actvate a cuelist buttons, all sequences in the cue will be activated at the same time, so you cant have 20 songs in one cue. or am i'm missing something

I stand corrected. I counted the left side buttons and forgot to multiply by 2, haha! So there's 1920 sequences available. Who needs more than that in one gig?

No matter if you create one cue per song or 20 songs per cue, when you hit the cuelist button, all the sequences are activated at the same time either way. Or am I missing something? A simple blackout in between songs, switch cuelist button, de-select the same cuelist button to turn them all off, pick a sequence from the new cue and undo black out. Or is there a better way?

I use chases and movements in the same sequence. How is that difficult? Just keep the movers doing the same pattern for x number of scenes while adding x number of chase scenes. Then change the movers and add more chases while keeping the movers on the new pattern. I explained in another thread how I create and change my scenes with manual trigger for my band application, but didn't get into detail here. Remember, I'm playing drums, running our mixer (cheap ass band doesn't want full time FOH) and triggering FS with my Roland SPD-S via midi. I'm not full time running just the light show. My light show is not perfect and I don't claim to be a real light guy, but what I do, gets the job done. The crowd doesn't have a clue to what's going on, nor do they care less.

cchladny wrote:

Shannon D wrote:Don't waste a whole cue just for these type scenes.

Sounds like you're missing the point of lighting design if you're just using an override button for a drum solo.................................

Actually, I don't even use the override buttons for anything. I was simply giving alternatives for programming. Yes, I was mainly talking about static scenes for the drum solo, guitar solo, etc by changing pars or whatever. Still, one sequence within a cue can do what your talking about. Or am I missing something? Why do you need a whole cue just for an intro or drum solo?

We're not talking about the same thing, so I think that's the main difficulty.

When using cue pages with multi-select On, it's really nice to be able to build up your cues, sort of like using submasters. Just to give a simple example, when I'm doing lights for wedding receptions, I have my program for a simple RGBY chase for my LED pars. And along with that I have a chase for my up-lighting. And along with that, I'll have movers going. I want to be able to simplify things and click one button to change the look of all three items to coordinate, not have to select multiple cues. Running a wedding, the delays between cues isn't a big deal, but if I was doing a rock show and I have 5 different cues I need to select, I don't want a pause as I black out, fade up some lights, starts the movers, etc. It's not a question of how many cues I can have, it's the ability to combine them easily as whole looks, not just as individual chases. If the "cues" were ACTUAL "cues", they would actually be lists of their own, but really just running one chase on each.

If I'm understanding right, you're programming the whole program as one long chase. I have no problem with doing it that way, but that's not really how it's "supposed" to be done. If you get into things like submasters and such, it's all about building the looks you want out of multiple programs. I'm not a fan of submasters, though, as they don't work well for quick changes, like for running lights for a rock show on-the-fly. They're great for slower changes that you know are going to happen consistently, or for programming, but for running a show I'm always much happier if I can run build-up cues.

What it all boils down to is preference. My preference would be to have more cue-list tabs. If no one else shares my preference, then there's no point in adding more tabs and I'll just have to live with it or look elsewhere. No biggie.

Shannon D wrote:

cchladny wrote:

Shannon D wrote:Don't waste a whole cue just for these type scenes.

Sounds like you're missing the point of lighting design if you're just using an override button for a drum solo.................................

Actually, I don't even use the override buttons for anything. I was simply giving alternatives for programming. Yes, I was mainly talking about static scenes for the drum solo, guitar solo, etc by changing pars or whatever. Still, one sequence within a cue can do what your talking about. Or am I missing something? Why do you need a whole cue just for an intro or drum solo?

It just basically comes down to time savings. Yes, a cue CAN do a whole lot of various movements and such for a whole lot of fixtures, but isn't it way more functional to be able to separate your chases by fixture and purpose? Like making one to cycle the pars, and one to move the movers, etc? By doing that, that means I have to click at least two of the Play buttons rather than just getting a look to happen on perfect sync with one button. And like I mentioned before, if I want my pars to cycle on beat and the movers not to move on beat, then I can't do a single cue either way.

I gotcha! So you actually like that all sequences are activated at the same time to get the effect you looking for. I hated that, but now see a different side to it. Cool!

Yes, we are in two different situations. Me being the performer, sound guy and light guy all at the same time, I have to keep things as simple as I can.

I actually thought you guys were noobs because of the low number of post. My bad for thinking that way. Again, I was just trying to give alternatives. Most request usually get fufilled by Raph, so I hope you get what you want.

Peace!

SD

Yeah, being able to build up more and more cues gives me the ability to quickly change my programs either during a show, or when I'm doing re-programs in the off time. It's just a speed thing, rather than making whole new programs when I use a lot of the same sequences over and over.

And as far as your interests in it, it might actually be helpful for you too. You could set up the cue lists to your foot triggers (I think that's what you were using). It makes creating new looks MUCH easier than writing whole new chases from scratch. Just program your midi notes to the cue-list buttons rather than the cue buttons themselves. But, like I said before, it's just a personal preference.

I actually use the manual trigger feature to keep things in perfect timing. I set the scenes up to switch on downbeats. So when I would normally hit two crash cymbals, I hit one cymbal and hit a pad on my Roland SPD-S sampler pad and the lights switch in perfect timing with us. It would work as you described tho.

Cheers!

SD

Technically I could still keep everything in time as you described, but that would mean I would have to remember alot more while I'm performing. As it is, I play Vdrums and use several different kits on my Roland TD20. I also use sounds and loops on the Roland SPD-S but trigger FS at the same time with midi out. The SPD-S has 9 pads per patch and I use several patches with different sounds and loops for certain songs we play. I have midi note 13 assigned on every patch to several pads to do a manual trigger no matter what sound or loop I have playing. Some of my current sequences have 20+ steps (or scences). Doing it your way, I would be limited to 9 cuelist buttons per song and to toggle between them would interfer with my sounds and loops assigned to each patch on the SPD-S (I don't switch between patches during a song). I think I'll have to stay with my current setup unless I figure out an easier way. I'll look into changing some of my DJ cues tho.

SD

I think I get what you're running into. I think I'm missing how you toggle between cues currently?

On every patch of the SPD-S, I have certain pads with different midi notes assigned to correspond to a different sequence within the cue. Pads 1, 2 & 3 on every patch have midi note 13 assigned for manual trigger. I don't have sequences built for every particular song we do. I just create sequences with different moods. I select the appropiate mood for whatever song we are doing. Again, trying to keep it simple because I'm already very busy on stage.

Then actually it wouldn't be hard at all for you to switch to using cue pages. Just re-assign your midi notes to the cue lists rather than the cue buttons themselves. It will make it way easier for you to program and change your programs in the future. And you can then also select what you want on manual and what you want timed. So, as I mentioned before, if you want your pars on time, then you make them react to manual triggers, but if you want something like a mover to just scan slowly, or fast, regardless of the beat, you can have it ignore the manual trigger. It'll give you a lot more options. Definitely something to experiment with. And as far as your stage performance, it would still work exactly the same, it would just change how things are pre-programmed.

Thanks for the great software. I'd like to chime in about more cue tabs. I run lights for a couple of different bands using a combination my lights and the ones installed in various venues. I usually have the house light board to operate, two guitar players switching off solos and a singer who refuses to stay on the stage. Things happen too quickly and change too often to click four buttons, push six sliders and wonder where the vocalist has gone off to this time.

It usually takes two hands to run the dimmer boards installed in clubs. I've yet to incorporate Freestyler in the shows. I can see that I'll need one hand to run the mouse in Freestyler and one to trigger midi. I can also see that I'll run out of hands before I get anywhere near my lights.

Simple is better. One page per song, one cue button per scene. That would be fastest and easiest for live performance. Here's how it would work. Song starts, click "Intro 1" cue list button, turn on house lighting. Intro changes (?), click on "Intro 2" button. Verse begins, "Verse 1", change house lighting. And so on.

I've written sequences, chases and moves already. I've combined them into various looks appropriate for different sections of the songs. I've saved them as cues and assigned them to buttons. I'm out of buttons.

Yes, I could build scenes from submasters slowly on the fly. I could use the "Fast Cue Switcher" to find the "intro 2" from the drop down menu. I could load sequences for a song onto the cue page, assign it to a button and then run each cue from the list. The cue list works fine if you have the time to read and the skill to click accurately. Ergonomically? All these methods are way more difficult than one big button per scene.

Does this make sense or am I missing something obvious?

A nearly acceptable solution! The band does a 90 minute set of 16 tunes. I can divide the set into 3 sections of 6 songs each and save each as a separate location. The singer tends to ramble on between songs which gives me time to load up the next section (location). I can also create a less impressive set for the warm-up acts. I'll be good if they stick to the list. All bets are off if they improvise.