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Back in the old days, there was a feature in FreeStyler where people could synchronize their lightshow with audio files running in Winamp.
Few versions back, this is removed from FreeStyler with good reasons.

I am thinking of creating a plugin for this in FreeStyler, because I see requests for this quite often. But another topic where I kicked this up was really quiet. So I wonder. Do we really need such a feature?

Feel free to respond below.

How it worked was quite simple, and limited.
if i remember corectly in the cue manager next to each cue was simply a trigger time, and a song ID, the ID was simply the position in the winamp play-list.

i would prefer a plugin for virtualDj over winamp if possible, but for when id use it winamp would be fine, as i only use it for little Timed displays and not for dji

but for djing i would like to use it like this.

when no song is recognized FS acts as normal allowing me to choose cues submasters etc.
when a song is recognised it loads the first sequence (i may program the sequence as either a static scene colour change etc or as a sequence of pan tilt movements and coluor changes to match the songs mood) into cue 15 and runs that, disabling all the other cues .
then at another determined point in the song it loads the next sequence into cue 15 and runs that.
and so on and so on.
when the song has finished it goes back to the last cues i had playing.

so when creating the sync

I have used winamp for a very very long time for several different shows.. One major plus was the ability to play videos not just audio in sync with your lighing shows. I would be able to work perfectly with any cooreographer setting up perfect lighting cues along with shows that invoved video as well as audio. Also the abilit to change the cue times to Miliseconds to make sure your cues are exact was excellent. You could either have 1 trak or multiple tracks and freestyler would trigger based on the track assigned in your playlist on winamp. One thing I would do is crate track tags on an audio CD using Sony's CD Architect but mixed together where there are no gaps in between tracks. Just one mix with tracks for triggering different Cues. It would be awsome if we could have winamp enabled back on the newer releases. Now i am forced to do double work programing my lighing cues on Version 3.2 then imput everything by value only onto version 2.95H since the visualizer will not work any more on the older version either. 2.95h has worked flawlessly for me for as long as I have used it. If I could I would continue using 2.95h with the advantage of the winamp plug in. Only withought the vizualizer working, its pretty hard to setup all of your lighting every day to program your cues. Im am currently running to version back to back on two differnt laptops 2.95h and 3.2. Only to program using the visualizer on one then copy over the parameters to the other to have my show work great. Once I run my shows, I dont use the visualizer any more so 2.95h works great. I also run Arkaos Grand Visual VJ in conjunction with freestyler. Its awsome. Lets get winamp back in the game.

These kind of posts are the type of posts who can convince me of really doing this project.
For now, I feel there are too little users that actually going to use this kind of functionality.
As I'm not going to start and working several days on some project, knowing that just 3 users are going to use it sometime.

So I hope for dizzo007 and other users who voted "yes", more people will vote (and reply) here.
Otherwise this project will die forever, I'm afraid.
I'll give this topic some time to be seen by more users.

I think what most users problems are is not understanding its potential.
the old system was very limited and could only be used with with specialist applications, I.E Performes using winamp as a backing track, or displays which need synced music and video.
if this could be integrated with virtual dj,winamp,mediaplayer. you would retain the originals functionality.

if it could be tied to a particular track or video or even filetype then it would open a new world of opportunity.

a prodigy track where an override is to set to flash strobes in the right places, or release fog at the climax of a song.
what if every time you use a cdg track in virtual dj, it moves your scanners to the stage where your singer is, and runs a sequence of colour changes in time to the beat.

Rather than try and sync to Winamp, then have all the problems dealing with version changes, why not create a built-in audio player to Freestyler?

The timecodes could come direct from the player - it only needs to be simple - using the windows api's it's very easy to do!

You could then tie a audio file to a time-show, that gets loaded automatically when the show is run.

Regards,
Qpid.

Qpid wrote:Rather than try and sync to Winamp, then have all the problems dealing with version changes, why not create a built-in audio player to Freestyler?

The timecodes could come direct from the player - it only needs to be simple - using the windows api's it's very easy to do!

You could then tie a audio file to a time-show, that gets loaded automatically when the show is run.

Regards,
Qpid.

The idea is good, and I even thought about that way earlier. Except there is a problem; Thats what I do. (at work, professionally, I'm in multimedia software development and content management)
I can't write something like this for other people then my boss as there is a clause in my contract preventing this. I would risk too much doing that.

Next, it would not be "simple". With so many different users, are just as many different wishes. Pitch control, crossfading, cue points, multiplay,....
All that is already made in different (DJ) software, specially made for this. A "FreeStyler player" could never be able to beat al that. So it might still be beter to write a plugin that connects to already existing software, beginning with Winamp?

I'll tell you my situation.

I use pangolin Showtime or Autoplay , to play lasershows.
I use an dmx merger to force some scenes to my freestyler dmx network.

Autoplay and pangolin do not use winamp. They have there own audio engine (does support SMPTE).

Mabey smpte incomming for freestyler is intresting, and for winamp an smpte generator..

So we have the ability to use all software and hardware together time synced.


Edit:

As long as you still keep developing Sound 2 Light Cause at the moment, im an depended on my internal audio bridge to use freestyler, winamp and pangolin together

remco_k wrote:Next, it would not be "simple". With so many different users, are just as many different wishes. Pitch control, crossfading, cue points, multiplay,....
All that is already made in different (DJ) software, specially made for this. A "FreeStyler player" could never be able to beat al that. So it might still be beter to write a plugin that connects to already existing software, beginning with Winamp?

It wouldn't need all the fancy stuff, as the principle in the first place is to be able to create a repeatable show based on timecodes. Therefore, someone would create an audio file offline, with any mixes/effects/pitch set at the prodution stage. The player could then take a single audio file (which could be quite long!) and play it at normal speed, but using the timecodes to trigger a show.

remco_k wrote:The idea is good, and I even thought about that way earlier. Except there is a problem; Thats what I do. (at work, professionally, I'm in multimedia software development and content management)
I can't write something like this for other people then my boss as there is a clause in my contract preventing this. I would risk too much doing that.

That's a pity that a contractual clause could prevent a VERY useful feaure being implemented!! (can't 'someone else' write it? ) !

Regards,

Qpid.

Why a winamp timeline sync.

What has winamp to do with it ?

a timeline needs to be audio-source independent, so we can all use it with our favorite players.

For ex... if a number plays for 2minutes and 15 seconds, you know that you have 135 seconds.
Why not create a Freestyler scene file with 135 or 270 of 540 steps in it and a little utility that plays the steps from that file per second, half a second.....?

Witch can be started on for example audio input, button press or the "multimedia play button" from microsoft which starts the default audio player to run.

I have a good example; the program autoplay from pango. select audio file, it extracts the time, select the show data file. And play simultaneously.
Maybe let it generate the stepping file which can be altered with the scene editor.
The scene file could have the same name as the mp3/wav, and maybe if there in the same dir, it can auto-extract the time.

My dutch is so much better, so if you want a good explanation :p

cyberb0b wrote: a timeline needs to be audio-source independent, so we can all use it with our favorite players.

There is a problem, and that is the 'sync' part.

For ex... if a number plays for 2minutes and 15 seconds, you know that you have 135 seconds.
Why not create a Freestyler scene file with 135 steps in it and a little utility that plays the steps from that file per second?

Witch can be started on for example audio input, button press or something in that direction.

That will work, but in the end, you'll end up that your sequence is running at least 2 seconds out of sync, for 2 reasons:
1. FreeStyler's internal timing is not so accurate.
2. Soundcards / hardware audio players are not so accurate also. Only the really expensive ones (that goes for soundcards, as well as CD-players and other hardware players) have pretty accurate sampling frequency. All cheaper stuff, can have a deviation of 0,01%. (A normal deviation of 'cheap' oscillators and therefore a deviation to be expected in cheap soundcards and a lot of audio players)

Both inaccuracies cause your sequence to go out of sync within a few seconds. You'll end up shouting dirty words at it and never use it again.

So, next to audio playout and a starting point, a time sync between the player and the tool that is starting sequences is absolutely necessary, otherwise it will be useless.
And thats were the answer for this question kicks in:

Why a winamp timeline sync.

What has winamp to do with it ?

Winamp has already an build in plugin mechanism and time synchronisation methods, also Winamp was used in the past for this purpose.
But since winamp kept on changing the way it worked, Raph (developer of FS) decided to stop this syncing support with FreeStyler. I can imagine why...

Still, (if this functionality is actually going to be made) only creating it for winamp would be kind of stupid. Limiting all kinds of users to winamp.
Few days ago I was thinking of creating a way to make FreeStyler sync to an LTC source (=SMPTE). In fact, al big hardware light consoles can do that.
Then all players that are capable of generating an SMPTE source or LTC signal, can be used with the timesync option to FreeStyler.
When playing in a band the keyboard guy could generate the SMPTE timecode signal, that can be converted to LTC and transported over a regular XLR audio cable, put into the soundcard of your computer and a 'to be made' LTC converter can control FreeStyler with a timeline, synced on LTC. With that, you'll never have that your show is running out of sync. Not even if the band is playing twice as fast (most 'bad' drummers begin to play faster as the night kicks in).
A world of possibilities opens up then. Still, I see that not so many users are dieing to have this kind of functionality. Its a lot of work to make, but the interest is to low to do all this. -for now-

I think Freestyler lacks alot more functions then it have now, It have potential to be extremely cool program, better then all the others, but it all cost money and time to develop such a thing, so I don't know? I think the developers will need to win the lotto or something, because us users don't want to pay for software, we always seek for the best next thing on the market, and I thank Freestyer developers for keeping it up so far...

If Freestyler would get a time-line that would be awesome. It would make the software totally complete. I am doing prerecorded and live music and a time-line would totally make the show. I wouldn't have to keep on pressing buttons to cue each scene.

If you guys add a time-line function i would say something like this...
But right Now its this....

lightguy101 wrote:If Freestyler would get a time-line that would be awesome. It would make the software totally complete. I am doing prerecorded and live music and a time-line would totally make the show. I wouldn't have to keep on pressing buttons to cue each scene.

If you guys add a time-line function i would say something like this...
But right Now its this....

not even pro's use a timeline or similar for live performance. it is way too inaccurate for live music. if it is for playback music it is the best way. the light techinans use a Go' button to change "looks" for live music. my opinion is that a cue stack with a "go button" (like the cue list buttons in a stack) is more use full than the timeline.

LJ_krede.dk wrote: not even pro's use a timeline or similar for live performance.

Not quite true. Depending on the show and how often it needs to be ran and accuracy needed, they do use timelines. Especially in shows that runs months after eachother doing the same everyday (or twice a day). The time is synced to the music source (e.g. band - drummer that plays on a click track).
The audio guy or the drummer starts the sync signal (SMPTE I think), the light operator takes care the sync is on the right time line and then he leans back. Operation for that current track is fully automatical then.
Same goes for the video operator if he's there.
It needs a lot of pre-programming, but for these kind of shows its worth it.

But just not possible in FreeStyler. Like I said earlier, there is just too less demand for it.

Pros would also use midi to trigger exact cues (normaly from a keyboard player) in a live setup and then create maual inputs as required (because musicians will change what and when they are doing for fun!)

In prerecorded music it would again be midi as its a most acurate trigger that can be used and is fairly easy and cheap to implement.
The other way would be to make a sequence that is the exact same length as the music in question. (The best of luck with that!!!!)

As I have said in other threads, some of this is possible in FS but its not easy. There is no short cut way around it and its not worth it really.
Lightguy101 wrote that FS would be awsome if it had timeline featuresand that he would say FS rocks!. Well FS does not and its still the most awsome lighting software on the planet and it already rocks so whats your point?

Most amatur lighting enthusiasts seem to go through this phase of wanting their lights to work perfectly with the music.
They normally get over it when the see how much work is involved. It matters not what desk or software you have this will still be hard graft.

As remco said, if you are doing the same show over and over then timelineing is probably the route to go down but the guys doing this have some very expensive tools at their disposal to help them do it.

As remco said, if you are doing the same show over and over then timelineing is probably the route to go down but the guys doing this have some very expensive tools at their disposal to help them do it.

true......

Man I'm glad i've read this before updating!

First post guys, so quick introduction - I'm Matt aka. Cell from the UK. I'd been using FS to run my rig consisting of LED cans, various scanner fixtures and lasers about a year back for a light show for a band I play drums in. We've been in 'hiatus' for the past 12 months, however getting back gigging.

We incorporate loads of synths / electro into a backing track run alongside the live noise so when it came to creating the light show Winamp was a must. That's not to say that any audio player wouldn't have been suitable, but as I could set a scene to start when winamp begun to play a track this was suitable for me.

I then (painstakingly) created one very large scene for each track, in order to be able to sync the lights very directly to what was happening in the backing track. It took ages, but I was left with a scenario where I could create a winamp playlist, and a FS 'playlist' (list of scenes) and have each scene trigger when the track was played. Did a fair few gigs like this across UK and it never failed to work.

I understand the problems encountered with the old Winamp but without this function there is no way I'll be able to do the same stuff I could do with the old version, so it looks like i'm going to have to keep on with the outdated version.

So in a nutshell - if you can create a Winamp plugin for the new version, please please do it!

I use freestyler for theatre shows and am still cueing shows the old fashioned way by setting up a massive sequence and just pressing the next button. Takes a long time to program all the fade and scene times for each show but then a trained monkey just needs to press the button the right cue. (He also has to mix down all the mics too maybe a trained gorilla) A timecode would be excellent because all our tracks are pre-recorded but then we're still left with the eternal problem that the likes of win amp are just not featured filled for people. In and ideal situation I would love all my audio tracks and microphone automation (preferably in Logic hahaha) synced somehow with freestyler sequence editor (not the cue list) running in parallels...that would just be Christmas...but freestyler is the only reason I still need Windows so at least it helps Bill Gates pockets.

mrchacha100 wrote:I use freestyler for theatre shows and am still cueing shows the old fashioned way by setting up a massive sequence and just pressing the next button.

I think you should investigate another way to achieve the same result, have easier (and smaller) sequences and better to manage: have a look at how submasters work with the cue window.
You'll end up having a list of smaller sequences with a few steps starting them at the same time and/or after eachother.

mrchacha100 wrote:I use freestyler for theatre shows and am still cueing shows the old fashioned way by setting up a massive sequence and just pressing the next button. Takes a long time to program all the fade and scene times for each show but then a trained monkey just needs to press the button the right cue. (He also has to mix down all the mics too maybe a trained gorilla) A timecode would be excellent because all our tracks are pre-recorded but then we're still left with the eternal problem that the likes of win amp are just not featured filled for people. In and ideal situation I would love all my audio tracks and microphone automation (preferably in Logic hahaha) synced somehow with freestyler sequence editor (not the cue list) running in parallels...that would just be Christmas...but freestyler is the only reason I still need Windows so at least it helps Bill Gates pockets.

Hi mrchacha100,

My band is attempting something similar to what you described. We've got our audio tracks and some video coming out of Logic on a Macbook; then the MTC sends to our lighting and another video computer.

The MTC isn't working well with our lighting system (Elation Compu Live) so I am exploring other options. One thing I'm going to attempt is creating MIDI triggers for each event, and then seeing if Logic will send a MIDI file in sync with the audio tracks it plays.

I'll let you know if it works!

Please please PLEASE set this up. I have recently started building up a light rig for an up and coming solo musician. I had heard that it was possible to sync lights to a timecode generated by win amp or the like. With this in mind I've built up an admittedly small at present (you have to start somewhere) led can and scanner(s) lighting rig. I'm rapidly finding my way around the basics of dmx but since I run the sound for this artist as well the thoughts of missing a lighting cue because I was working the sound desk or forgetting to drop the reverb in (or out) etc......

I really like the software but trying to do it all is just a bit to much to consider. I have some good ideas for atmospheric lighting which will set her act off strongly and set her apart from others of her ilk however I don't think I can pull it all off and employing more crew makes it a non starter so please either reinstate it's ability to run off of a timecode or point me in the direction of previous versions of the software which I gather (to add insult to injury) had the required facility!

Robalun wrote:Please please PLEASE set this up. I have recently started building up a light rig for an up and coming solo musician. I had heard that it was possible to sync lights to a timecode generated by win amp or the like. With this in mind I've built up an admittedly small at present (you have to start somewhere) led can and scanner(s) lighting rig. I'm rapidly finding my way around the basics of dmx but since I run the sound for this artist as well the thoughts of missing a lighting cue because I was working the sound desk or forgetting to drop the reverb in (or out) etc......

I really like the software but trying to do it all is just a bit to much to consider. I have some good ideas for atmospheric lighting which will set her act off strongly and set her apart from others of her ilk however I don't think I can pull it all off and employing more crew makes it a non starter so please either reinstate it's ability to run off of a timecode or point me in the direction of previous versions of the software which I gather (to add insult to injury) had the required facility!

Thing is you might be able to get hold of the relevant version of FreeStyler but now you will have to try and find what version of WinAmp to use. As far as I am aware they kept changing the plug-in or what ever, and that was one of the problems, trying to keep up with that and the different version of WinAmp that people may be running. I might be totally wrong on the reason why it was dropped.

Fair point but it may be possible to work out by dates etc when a particular version of winamp was around at the time freestyler xxx was produced (or even just plain trial and error). On various old back up discs I have a number of versions of winamp and one of them might work. It's only a thought but trying to sync up separate audio and lighting software is a thought that I will do most things to avoid.
Is there no other basic player that could be used or even created in VB or the like (I concocted such a player while studying VB several years ago)? Audio files could be mp3/ wav/ wmp etc it doesn't really matter which as all types can be converted to comply with a given extension.
Surely there is some way of tieing freestyler with some other basic application capable of playing some sort of audio file?

Another +1 for timecoding.

I've never tried Winamp timecoding but as a DMXControl convert, I used it a fair amout and it has an inbuilt media player that shows the song as a waveform and you just play through, inserting cues/sequences at certain points. As a mobile DJ I really like Freestyler and want to link it up with my (soon to be) BCF2000. For most of the night, I will just work combinations of colour/patterns/shapes using a selection of presets. However it would be nice to have a handful of timecoded tracks that can be used for a bit of extra 'wow' factor at certain points in the evening. I am not suggesting a direct copy of DMXControl, it's just what I have used and found to work, but something along these lines would be amazing!