Building a custom desk running Freestyler!

[stuv]

Hey guys,

Just though i would pop in here and let you know of my plans, and see if any good ideas pop up from any of you along the way.

I have been using Freestyler now for about 2 years, for everything form night clubs, to theater, to corporate shows and stage shows; with setups from 12 channels of dim up to 30+ intelligent fixtures. I use it on a weekly basis, and find it to be the best designed DMX software around (i even prefer it to most lighting desks and often opt for it over a hog/grandMA).

Anyways, I usually use freestyler in conjunction with a behringer BCF2000, and have started to think to myself that it would be great if the controller were better layed out for my use of freestyler. As such my idea has evolved to my current plan to custom build a console surface designed especially for Freestyler. Below are my ideas and plans as they currently stand:

> 2 x 17" touchscreen LCD's (organised to purchase OEM touchscreens without casings for approx AUD$650)
> Full laser cut alluminium casing with typical wedge shape design and increased angle for screen components
> Two internal PC's networked with KVM swith for right monitor to switch between extended display on PC1 or single display for PC2
> need second PC running with remote control software anyway to utalise both touchscreens on one PC
> 2 ENTTEC USB DMX PRO's - can run each PC separately for large jobs over one universe
> 1 x BCF2000 and 1 x BCR2000 hooked up to PC1 for control surfaces. Individual controls form these unit's to be re-designed and layed out for the following:
_________________________________________________________________________

Rotary with push:
Gobo 1
Gobo 2
Color
Color 2

Rotarys: (12 with push disabled and re-routed to buttons)
Gobo Rotate
Gobo 2 rotate
Cyan
Magenta
Yellow
Pan
Tilt
Prisim
Prisim Rotate
Focus
Zoom
Iris
Frost
shutter
Sequence Speeed 1-20
midi to DMX 1-2

Faders:
Master Intensity
Submaster intensity 1-5
Intensity
Cross Fader (PCDJing)

Buttons:
Smoke
toggle favorite
Toggle Blackout (shift for fade out)
toggle all fixtures
open DMX400
tap sync
Release fixture (shift for release all)
toggle freeze
shift
next fixture
previous fixture
select same even fixtures
select same odd fixtures
toggle submasters 1-5
submaster page 1-4
Groups 1-10
blackout group 1-24
______________________________________________________

> 1 x slimline keyboard installed into console surface
> 1 x trackball or touch pad mouse installed into console surface
> Built in wireless access point for external laptop control form EEEPC
> custom boot screens and login screens to appear as a professionally built console - auto start into freestyler with custom XP theme
> additional sound card for PC DJing capabilities
> 2nd usb keyboard redesigned as 32 flash keys (i don;t like flash keys on midi cause i have had problems before)
> built in goose neck lamp connectors
> Built in DMX splitter for main output


That's about where i am for plans at the moment. In the process of chasing up some quotes on laser cutting and still designing the layout i want. Also still on the look out for a secondhand BCR2000 and DMX splitter.

So what do you guys think? Any ideas on how i could improve this? Basically I am trying to design a lighting console that will work exactly how i want it to. And this may also make some of the other techs in Adelaide start to take freestyler a little more seriously

Thanks in advance for your comments,
Regards,
Stephen Saba.

[dmxlighting]

Hi Stephen

Sounds like a great project, I hope you post some photos of the 'work in progress' and the finished unit.

Ive built a similar unit.

1x pc, 1 enttec pro, 1x bcf2000, 1x 17" Touch screen for FS, 1x 10" touch screen for Magic 3D.
Im thinking about getting a second BCF2000.

I do own a Zero 88 Leap Frog Desk but I love this project and use FS on small jobs (Leap frog will do 2 uni straight and 6 uni via Artnet)

One bit of kit you may find useful is this ..... http://www.ultimarc.com/ipac1.html (ideal from custom usb interfaces)


Good luck with your work.

[stuv]

Hey guys,

Thanks for the quick replies and the support.

I had already looked at the iPac before for previous projects, but I'm probably planning on using a USB one for the flash buttons. And yes, a joystick was another of my ideas that i forgot to write down, but I'll have to try and find a nice little compact one Wanted to get a little one similar to those on an old Pulsar Masterpiece, but in a USB joystick version.

Either way, the only things holding me up at the moment are money and time. Mind you that's always the way in life

And yes, When/if I go ahead with this I will definitely post a worklog with my progress. there will be a LOT of soldering to do since each rotary encoder has 35 individual lines to the board (plan on using IDE headers and ribbon cables).

Thanks,
Stephen

[LJ_krede.dk]

Ive built a similar unit.

1x pc, 1 enttec pro, 1x bcf2000, 1x 17" Touch screen for FS, 1x 10" touch screen for Magic 3D.
Im thinking about getting a second BCF2000.

do you have any pictures of it??

[stuv]

Ive built a similar unit.

1x pc, 1 enttec pro, 1x bcf2000, 1x 17" Touch screen for FS, 1x 10" touch screen for Magic 3D.
Im thinking about getting a second BCF2000.

do you have any pictures of it??

I second this... Pics would be good... als I've started some rough layout designs, I'll upload them int he next few days once they are done

[dmxlighting]

I will get some done this coming weekend! - Ive never had my camera out with me when using it and my iphone takes really crap pics!

[desolation]

Save yourself the insane hassle and buy a Chamsys console instead ?
Or a second hand/chinese Avolites ?

[dmxlighting]

Id also add to Onges comments that there is an imense anount of satisfaction and fun in a project like that!!

As Ive said before, Ive got alot of proper hardware and a proper hardware desk which is a great bit of kit but I like to play about with projects like this.

Maybe Desolation is a little short sighted in his comments.

[stuv]

Yea, The idea behind this project was to crate a console that worked exactly how i wanted it to. I have access and have used many of the industry standard consoles, and have no dire need for my own console if i wanted to continue using Hog/GrandMA/Other systems, however I would much prefer taking the effort and building a console that runs exactly how i want it to.

Also: Received my BCR2000 off eBay today AU$170ish in perfect condition

Regards,
Stuv.

[lj_raph]

Here's mine:



These are the specs so far:

- Powered by an eeepc 704 which slides next to the keyboard under the wings.
- 2x ENTTEC wing: one program and one playback
- ENTTEC PRO interface
- 12inch touchscreen
- Blue lit keyboard
- led desklight and some blue leds
- transforms in a handy case (keyboard is retractable and touchscreen folds down)

It just needs some hiding of the cables under the touchscreen and some flightcase parts.

[stuv]

Nice

How did ya get the ENTTEC wings to connect? Through Artnet? I was trying to do this a while ago but gave up cause i went Midi Instead...

[Mattotone]

theres a new function for them in the latest version of fs

[remco_k]

Here's mine:

Very nice Raph!

[lj_raph]

Indeed, the new version of FreeStyler supports them (up to 3 controllers).

These wings use UDP or TCP packets to communicate, but also support MIDI with the MIDIwing software (which I wrote for ENTTEC).

Raph

[stuv]

Hey Guys,

Just letting anyone interested know that I'm still alive and so is this project... Been quite busy with life, but I have made some headway with this and am trying my best to push on and have it finished sometime during this year

Since last post I have purchased a DJ coffin case for AU$100 off eBay that I plan to build the console directly into. The front section with the gaps will become the rear of my console with the gaps compensating for the port openings at the rear of the desk (IE: all the plugs). The lid will also be hinged form this side with stops to allow it to be used as angled monitors when in use. There will be 2 17" touchscreen LCDs in the lid as well as whatever hardware I cannot fit int he base section. The base section shall house both PCs, all power supplies (and maybe a UPS if i can fit it ) the control boards and hardware for the midi controllers, the ENTTEC Pro, A DMX splitter, and any other hardware i find i need. The surface panel that will cover all this with the console layout will hopefully be laser cut and etched Aluminum or Stainless Steel. I will be dismantling a DAS Model S Ultimate keyboard for all of the buttons required and as an interface for the flash buttons. I'm looking at a Logitech Illuminated keyboard for the main desk keyboard. And still trying to track down a good price on a decent trackball .

Here is a first draft of the layout of the surface. Any suggestions, feedback or questions would be great


The Keyboard details can be found here: http://www.daskeyboard.com/daskeyboard_ ... timate.php
It's a shame to dismantle such a expensive and nice keyboard, but it was the cheapest way i could find to get decent mechanical switches with blank key's that look and function the way i want (I'll be using almost every key on this board and rebuilding them to my own layout PCBs or ProtoBoards)

The Coffin Case Details can be found here: http://store.roadreadycases.com/dyn_pro ... W&k=113902

Would love some feedback and suggestions on all this so I can perfect it before i start the build.
Regards,
Stephen a.k.a STUV

[LJ_krede.dk]

Here is a first draft of the layout of the surface. Any suggestions, feedback or questions would be great

Look great but have some comment.

Submaster section
I like you have an encoder for each submaster to control the speed, I do the same with my BCF2000, but there is a but. the speed midi settings will not change when you change submaster page, like the submaster intensity does for the faders. the settings for the speed is fixed for each of the 20 sequences in the cue window. if this should work FS has to be changed or you need some software (MIDI-OX) which manipulates the midi signal the way you want.

another thing: you dont have the the four control buttons for each submaster (Run, Stop, Go, Back). I think you will miss them. the master speed fader is also nice to have during live shows, i use it a lot.

DMX channel Control
How does that work?

[stuv]

the speed midi settings will not change when you change submaster page, like the submaster intensity does for the faders.

another thing: you dont have the the four control buttons for each submaster (Run, Stop, Go, Back). I think you will miss them. the master speed fader is also nice to have during live shows, i use it a lot.

DMX channel Control
How does that work?

The speed controls will change with the submasters page through the miracle of dual pole buttons... Each page button will not only change the submaster page, but also change the rotary encoder bank (think top set of rotary encoders on BCF2000). This will allow the speed controls to match the active submasters page

The speed rotaries will also push down to toggle each submaster... I don't feel that i need run, stop, go and back for the way in which i handle submasters. Toggle function will be sufficient.

Lastly the DMX channel control will take advantage of Freestylers MIDI page option. Every other midi function on this surface will be MIDI page independent, except this DMX section where the three buttons will change the MIDI page and the rotaries will be assigned to different "MIDI to DMX" values depending on MIDI page.

Thanks for the feedback,
Regards,
Stephen.

[dmxlighting]

I don't feel that i need run, stop, go and back for the way in which i handle submasters.

Really ?? how are you going to navigate each submaster? As LJ said I think you should reconsider not having them.

Other than that its looking like a great project.

Im not sure about the choice of case to build it all in though, Im familiar with that type of case and I can see you running out of room to fit it all in. Please remember to allow plenty of air flow in the case. Packing it all into a hot box could cause you problems.

Good luck - and keep us posted!!

[stuv]

Hey,

Planning to just use the touchscreen and/or the trackball mouse to navigate submasters... I usually run submasters similar to pallets in that i have one for colors, one for movements, etc. and pick and choose the look i desire. That and i usually run 1 submaster for pre-programmed steps, and click through them with the mouse. If it's a theater show I'm doing with everything pre-programmed I just run it straight out of the "create scene" window

as far as size go, I'm used to building custom PC cases and having to fit alot of equip in small spaces. I admit it will be a little tight, but with all the foam removed and all the boards horizontal (using PCI and PCI-E risers for the PC if needed) I am confident that this case will be just right. I will of-course be installing fans to bring air in and out of each internal compartment and use the compartments to my advantage with heat management and airflow.

Thanks,
Regards,
Stephen.

[Piers]

Hi Stuv
Check out the FitPC2. Would two of those fit in your flightcase? A fully featured PC measuring about 4" by 4" by 1.5" and drawing 9 watts of power?

[Piers]

Stuv
I do IT support during the day, Blues Drummer in the evening. I'm trying to build a Hippy Trippy light show using a PC\ AV Projector running the Geiss Screensaver (an MP3 Visualisation plugin....redesigned to run as a screensaver) and some LED Parcans. My aim is to get the screensaver under DMX control. I plan to get two of the cheaper FitPC2 devices, one to run the screensaver and AVI files through the AV projector, and the other to run Freestyler and a MIDI control surface like the BCF2000. I'm halfway there using Bome's MIDI Translator that translates MIDI to key press combinations and can reliably call up 100 GEISS screensaver presets over MIDI, I have found a DMX to MIDI converter on the interweb that should enable me to call up 100 presets from the screen saver and create scenes with coplimentary settings (colour and intensity) on the LED Parcans. Does the latest version of Freestyler let you sequence midi information with each scene? Sorry, I am a novice where it comes to lighting and am not sure how many lights I can control using the BFC2000 (my guess is "more than 8", even though there are only 8 faders. I am a bit confused that you require touch sensitive screens as well as the Midi control suface, or are you using one to act as a DMX desk replacement and the other to act as a control surface for individual lights?
Do you need a screen for a live show? or can you set things up so that the PC and control surface boot up as a lighting desk?
What can I say......I'm a drummer

[dmxlighting]

how many lights I can control using the BFC2000 , my guess is "more than 8", even though there are only 8 faders. I am a bit confused that you require touch sensitive screens as well as the Midi control suface, or are you using one to act as a DMX desk replacement and the other to act as a control surface for individual lights?
Do you need a screen for a live show? or can you set things up so that the PC and control surface boot up as a lighting desk?
What can I say......I'm a drummer

I will try to answer the question you have...

With a BCF2000 you can control a loads and loads of lights. But you need to think of it as controlling 'Scenes, Sequences & Cues' rather than number of lights.

The use of a touch screen and a BCF is very valid as in FS there are 2 ways to use the touch screen, one way is preset and the other is fully customised.
As the midi interface is a fully custom arranged interface it makes good sence to use the custom screen with it as it means you have far more instant control over your lighting. You do not have to use a screen as well but if you have one then why not!
The beauty of FS is the flexable way in which YOU can use it and the varoius interfaces use can add to it and the ways in which the interfaces can be used.

I usually run submasters similar to pallets in that i have one for colors, one for movements, etc. and pick and choose the look i desire.

This is how submasters should be used!! - Dont forget that if you get a 'Look' that you like and want to use alot then you can save this as a 'cuelist button'
Then you can recall the setup on one button press.

This is all explained in my submaster tutorial - http://www.freestylersupport.com/fsforu ... f=6&t=1803

[stuv]

Hi Stuv
Check out the FitPC2. Would two of those fit in your flightcase? A fully featured PC measuring about 4" by 4" by 1.5" and drawing 9 watts of power?

They would, however I plan to run other intensive tasks with this system so I need a decent spec machine and find it much more economical to build the system with standard PC parts. as it is I already have some of the parts that i have re-purposed form other PC's i own.

I am a bit confused that you require touch sensitive screens as well as the Midi control suface, or are you using one to act as a DMX desk replacement and the other to act as a control surface for individual lights?
Do you need a screen for a live show? or can you set things up so that the PC and control surface boot up as a lighting desk?

The touch sensitive will be used at the same time as the MIDI surface. I plan on using the touchscreen basically instead of a mouse. While i will still have a trackball mouse on the surface in case, I find it much easier to touch the lights and settings on the screen rather than try to use a mouse when i have to make quick selections and changes. Freestyler also has a couple of touchscreen interfaces, however i doubt i will be using these. Basically I find touchscreen a faster alternative to using a mouse.

[Josh]

Look like you all have some great ideas. I too converted to FS 3 years ago ad have done probably 2000+ hours of shows using it in its current form. I have found it to be the most versatile piece of DMX control available. I am however getting the itch to make it into something really special. The first issue I know im going to have with this however is that the external control devices I want to develop are not commercial products and will be custom built for the task. And to be honest, I'd prefer it if I was not limited by the capabilities of MIDI of keyboard shortcuts. As such, the biggest thing I need to know is, being free software, is there an open source version of FS anywhere? not only will I need to be making some modifications to it, but I'm also hoping to recompile it to remove the need for a windows platform to run on.....bring on the late night software mods! If an open source version doesn't exist, it would basically mean I would need to re-write it from scratch, which seems pointless.

General Plans are:


-An application level system(likely based around the CortexA9 processor family) to manage user interfaces, global function control, and video for a 20 inch touch screen.
-two programmable touch interface banks(buttons, sliders etc) managed by a dedicated processor each(operation is independent from the master processor however configuration of operation is controlled by the master)
-a matrix bank of 96 programmable flash buttons(not sure if i want tactile or touch yet)
-bank of 32 faders, likely touch to minimize need for large ADC overheads


planning on also using multi colored LEDS behind as much of the unit as possible to allow the user to determine the function mode a fader or button is in without the need for labeling. And given the custom nature of the system, there is not much to prevent it from running as many universes as I can be bothered giving it. Also planning on incorporating direct wireless control of some wireless control modules I designed rather than having to map the DMX output of FS to the wireless protocol needed(this is the only way it would be done in FS currently).

Would appreciate any input you guys can give as far as design considerations, but mostly, open source FS would be the best thing at this point.

Cheers

All in all, I want lighting control to be a more creative process.

[dmxlighting]

Hi Josh

There is no 'open source' version of FS at the moment nor do I think there will be.
The are a few developers on this forum (Remco_k & Mattone) that have written some extra stuff that will work with FS so maybe you can develop something to help with your ideas? FS using 'send message' system which does allow for various options that go a bit beyond the basics that many users use.

Good luck with your project it looks like an interesting one!
Keep us upto date with progress.