dmx newb

[djbluephoenix]

well here i go ...

i have 3 microh lasers with me right now

2 virus-30's
1 duobeam

same brand name different products but they all have the same dmx channels... im all new to this i guess and need to hook them up to the computer(just got my enttec dmx pro) maybe to fool around abit..

but if i want to make the virus 30's work the same and the duobeam different how would that happen?... just different timing in freestyler?

-------------------------

i tried to make a ficture but how am i suppost to assign channels when the most common on there for the lasers are only pan and tilt 8-16bit<---no idea what the difference is with 8-16bit

haha i guess im just lost

[Onge]

Firtsly Hi djbluephoenix and welcome to the FreeStyler Forum,

As you are such a newcomer to DMX and lighting control I would suggest you nstart with taking a look at our DMX Wiki http://www.thedmxwiki.com/
In Definitions there are a lot of things explained about DMX and lighting fixtures.

To answer you question, if a fixture are patched with different DMX addresses then they can be controlled individually. If they where patched with the same DMX address then they would appear as one fixture 2 FreeStyler and all other controllers and would therefore do the same as each other.
Some fixtures have switches on them that will reverse the pan and/or the tilt. So if one of them had it's pan reversed, and they was addressed the same when you moved the pan control one would go right and the other left but they would be treated as ONE light.

8bit and 16bit. When DMX was invented it was just for use as a dimmer and 1 channel would control one light, each channel had 256 values (0-255) (8 bits), this was deemed enough for dimming a light, but now we have intelligent fixtures such as moving heads which can rotate for 540 degrees, yep that right a circle and a half. Now if that 540 was divided by 256 you get 2.109375 which means for every increment of 1 the light would rotate just over 2 degrees. This does not sound much but when you see it in action it is a big step. So they got around this by using 2 channels, (normally side by side of each other), Now one of the channels controls the rough movement, in our example 2 degrees of movement for every step and the 2nd channel controls the smooth movement between the 2 degrees of the first channel. So the "smooth" channel has 256 steps for every 1 step in the "rough" channel.

I hope that makes sense. I have attached a PDF file which explains in in a diagram, maybe you could understand that better than my words.

Creating a fixture. I do not know the lasers you have so do not know if they have things like pan/tilt. If not then in fixture creator just set the number of channels as defined by the manual and create macros for each of the values on each channel as defined by the manual.

Take a look at the American DJ Emerald Sky laser, this is only a 2 channel laser but you can see how I defined the macros. The post concerning this is here.

Hope that helsp and good luck.

16%20BIT%20FADER%201.pdf

[djbluephoenix]

ok i get how if the channles were set the same on both they would both act the same... im slowly getting it ...

now in the manual contained here http://www.microhpro.com/man/virus30.pdf channel 1 has a bunch of values lets focus on 102~152:

it says dmx512 image mode 1 <----- so that would mean the macro would be 1? then i would set the value from 102~152?

but it doesnt let me pick the values it just shows picture on what i can display is what im thinkin. in freestyler i thought you could set the dmx channels then set the values that you want it to scan through... cuz if you were on an actual board you could just rotate the knob or slider whichever is on there.

lmao am i even close to getting this right?

[Onge]

You are getting there. Yes to use "Image Mode 1" you would create a macro that had a value of somewhere between 102-152 on channel 1 for that fixture, use a mid value so in this case 125 as on some fixtures you might not get the desired effect by having the value at the bottom or top of the range, especially true for colour wheels, but that is not for here. . Don't think of this as the DMX address channel think of it as the first channel for this fixture. If you patched the fixture at DMX address 96 then the first channel of the fixture is controlling DMX channel 96.
Setting channel 1 to 125 then allows the use of channels 3-8 to select patterns and do various things with the selected patterns.

The purpose of a fixture file is so that you can define what each channel does so the program has some idea of what sort of control to display to the LJ. For example if a fixture has pan/tilt it displays a panel that allows you to move a dot around simulating/controlling the light position. This on a normal desk would be 2 sliders if 8 bit or 4 sliders if 16 bit, but using sliders is not very intuitive for moving pan/tilt. Far enough tilting is in an up/down motion but for panning up/down control for left/right not very intuitive. If you had a colour wheel, it would show a panel that allows you to pick the colour you wanted to display. On a normal desk you would have to remember the values for each colour and then move the slider to the correct position, again not very intuitive.

The problem with lasers is they fall into a class of there own in as much as most DMX controllers have no idea about how to control them as they do not have the "standard" range of funtions, such as pan/tilt, colour wheels etc. Sometimes you can use the gobo wheel function for any preset patterns a lase might have on a channel, but normally this is not the case as a lot of them use to channels for pattern selection i.e. they have n number of patterns in 1 channel (say 32 patterns) and then in 2nd channel they have n number of banks of patterns (say 8). This in someways makes it easier to select the pattern you want by the slider method but does not lend itself to being controlled easily via "standard" PC DMX controllers. You could for example say it has 2 gobo wheels and say the first has 32 gobos and the second has 8 gobos and then could select the pattern/group you want from those 2 controls.

So making them macros is an easy way to set certain values for certain channels, after a while of playing around with the fixture creator and freestyler you might find a different way of doing things.
Just because in Fixture Creator something is defined as a gobo wheel or a colour wheel does not mean it cannot be used for something else, it is FreeStylers way of knowing what sort of "Control" window to display, for example in an above example we was talking about patterns selection being across 2 channels, now you could use the pan/tilt function to select the patterns if you wanted. Not very intuitive I know but serves as a good example.
So for example if you wanted a "Triangle" to display you would set channel 1 to 125, channel 3 to 225. Then you could set channel 5 to a value between 150-255 to rotate the image clockwise. Now I do not know if these values select a different postion in the rotation or is a speed control from slow to fast (or vice versa) you will have to try them out remember if you create a fixture you will have the 8 sliders on the right of the screen, after the fixture has been selected, to try different value.

Again I hope this helps and has not been too much of a bombardment of information.

[djbluephoenix]

no its been so much help!!!... i have nothing to add right now :p... i need to buy a 5pin to 3pin addapter, once i get that i'll be able to figure stuff out and come back and ask more questions ..

thank you so much.

---------
ok well one question

so instead of the macro being 1, i would set it to the desired 125? then obviously the dipswitch #1 would be set to on?... hhhmm im understanding now... i was confused when the manuel said 1 then set to desired number...

i would be understanding that 125 macro in freestyler would send that 125 signal to the laser and the laser would know where/what number to send it to <----- making it obviously an intelligent light

[Onge]

The dipswitches set the DMX address of the fixture. There is a dipswitch calculator in the DMX Wiki to help. The address you set the fixture to is the address you must patch the fixture to in FreeStyler.

If you create a macro with a value in channel 1 then it sends that value to the first channel of that fixture. The actual address that the value will be sent too is what the fixture has been patched too.

[djbluephoenix]

WOW its bean almost a year but i finally got my stuff... i really hope someone sees this thread i didnt want to open another one causing "flooding".

well the other day when i hooked up just the 1 laser i went to the manual and dip switch 1 does all sorts of things, the one thing was "BLACK OUT" which is 0-50 i tried it but the laser didnt do anything... i need some help. i tried going to the tutorials but it doesnt really help, maybe if someone can go on skype and explain or msn i would much appreciate it . its easier for me to learn if i have someone explaining things instead of me trying to read it and figure it out.

[jonny b good]

WOW its bean almost a year but i finally got my stuff... i really hope someone sees this thread i didnt want to open another one causing "flooding".

well the other day when i hooked up just the 1 laser i went to the manual and dip switch 1 does all sorts of things, the one thing was "BLACK OUT" which is 0-50 i tried it but the laser didnt do anything... i need some help. i tried going to the tutorials but it doesnt really help, maybe if someone can go on skype and explain or msn i would much appreciate it . its easier for me to learn if i have someone explaining things instead of me trying to read it and figure it out.

Well if you can PayPal me £200 an hour I will gladly sit on MSN or Skype and explain how to do things, it will be for a minimum of 5 sessions each last 5 hours . If not then you need to read and workout how FreeStyler, Fixture Creator and other stuff works, take a look at the DMX Wiki, the FreeStyler Wiki for more inspiration.

The main problem with creating fixtures for lasers is that controlling laser by DMX is just a cheap/nasty work around to get cheap nasty lasers controlled by DMX. It will not matter what DMX software or hardware you choose to use you will find no easy solution to controlling lasers by DMX as they are just not suited to it.
You have to be creativly clever in adapting the various "control" options within Fixture Creator to use for channels on you laser. For example most cheap lasers have no way of pointing the beam where you want like in a moving head or a scanner so the PAN & TILT options would be of no use, but you might find that the laser has a vertical and a horizontal shift, so that could use the PAN & TILT. Use gobo channels and colour channels for patterns etc. use macros for defining certain modes of the laser, then you can use other channels to do other things. Macros can be used to set values across all channels of the fixture, which you can then select in a sequence.
Just because the description of something in Fixture Creator does not match a channel in the laser does not mean it cannot be used. As all channels regardless of the what type of fixture can only have a value from 0 (zero) to 255, there is nothing else it can be. So you could just create a fixture that had the correct number of channels you laser had and then control it from the sliders that appear from right of the screen in FreeStyler. Doing this means you need to know you laser and channel values very well or keep the manual by your side to refer to.

Honestly no one is going to do this for you, you need to learn, but seriosuly I could create a fixture for you it will cost £200, but it might not be as you like it because FreeStyler does not understand what sort of channels the laser has and it might confuse you if I was to put scanning speed on Iris etc. and also I do not have any of these fixtures so it might be just wrong and then you would pester me to fix it because you do not understand how it works.

One thing please do not say I do not know what I am talking about because of my low post count, all the mods on here know who I really am and what my real post count is.

Other than that please come back and ask specific questions and we on the FreeStyler Support Forum will do our best to help.

[remco_k]

jonny has a point, djbluephoenix. He just needs my whole screen to write that down.

Explanations are available allready. See the wikipedia, the help files, google and any description of how DMX works in general.
One tip: maybe you should try to hook up a simple dimmer pack or something similar that acts as normal dimmer channel to see how things work.
YOU need to understand. So YOU need to do at least some work, with the assistance of us. We will help you, but not with this wide open question. At least, my guess is that there will not be a long line of people waiting for that...

[djbluephoenix]

i didn't want some one to do it for me just explain the program, i know how to set values, and what numbers on the slider mean etc. i made a fixture using the fixture creator only setting 1 channel so dip switch 1 is the only one on. in the manual for my laser the values 0-50 does the function "black out", i moved the slider 0-50 (0,1,2,3 to 50) but the laser doesn't react to the values.

i have an enttec usb pro the green light indicator is flashing telling me the program has accessed it so its not the box, the laser is practically new haven't used it in a show yet.

could it be because its a 3 prong dmx laser instead of the 5? i bought an adapter cable so i thought it would be alright, or am i wrong?

[Mattotone]

the 5 pin to 3 pin adapter should be fine.
If the laser isnt reacting it can be a whole range of things.

1. DMX Polarity. Some manufactures wire there dmx sockets the otherway round and you will require a cross over.
2. Fixture has wrong address. Iv bought a fixture before and whilst the manual swore blind it was set to start at channel 1 it actually set to start on channel 2
3. DMX mode not activated. Some fixtures require certain dip pin settings to be in dmx mode.
4. DMX Values are not correct. Somes fixtures require certain channels to be set to certain values to enable functions, for example my LED par can requires channel 1 to be bellow 50 for the RGB Function.
5. Laser maybe duff. Try another laser. Or fixture to test your dmx setup.

[jonny b good]

i didn't want some one to do it for me just explain the program, i know how to set values, and what numbers on the slider mean etc. i made a fixture using the fixture creator only setting 1 channel so dip switch 1 is the only one on. in the manual for my laser the values 0-50 does the function "black out", i moved the slider 0-50 (0,1,2,3 to 50) but the laser doesn't react to the values.

i have an enttec usb pro the green light indicator is flashing telling me the program has accessed it so its not the box, the laser is practically new haven't used it in a show yet.

could it be because its a 3 prong dmx laser instead of the 5? i bought an adapter cable so i thought it would be alright, or am i wrong?

I can't get a copy of the manual for this anymore as links are dead.

The dipswitch has nothing to do with channels or DMX values, it sets the start address of the fixture, so FreeStyler or any other DMX controller knows where to talk to it.
You say that you are moving the slider and 0-50 and it's not doing anything ? What do you expect it to do as it is "Blackout" according to you.
You need a fixture file that has the correct number of channels so you can control more than just the 1 channel otherwise you most probably will not get anything.

[Mavi]

I will explaine a little about DMX addresses to you. Perhaps you do not understand how this works yet:

In fixture creator you set up only the NUMBER of DMX channels the fixture will use. This has nothing to do with the real address.
In FreeStyler you have to set the FIRST chennel when adding a fixtur.
Your fixture is now patched to the first channel. The fixture itselfe knows how many channels it uses and will listen for dmx values to these amount of channels after the first one you definde by the dip switches. FreeStyler knows how many channels to use for this fixture from the fixture file.

So if you want to use a 5-channel fixture at the DMX addresses 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 you have to set the number of DMX channels in fixture creator to 5. In FreeStyler when adding the fixture you set the start address to 7. And you dip switches will set to 7 as well.

[jonny b good]

I have created a fixture for you.

Read what I have written about the fixture, understand the channel values for your fixture.

It is far from perfect and as said lasers are hard things to try and create a meaningful fixture profile for.

Not tested.

See this post.

[djbluephoenix]

thank you so much ... this is all i needed actually. i can work off this and figure out the fixture creator in detail. all i needed was an example. thank you so much johnny and i'll prob be back for other questions as you can tell im a complete noob

[jonny b good]

thank you so much ... this is all i needed actually. i can work off this and figure out the fixture creator in detail. all i needed was an example. thank you so much johnny and i'll prob be back for other questions as you can tell im a complete noob

Not a problem, if you are so new to DMX then take a look at the DMX Wiki and read about DMX512 in there it gives a good insight on how DMX works. Get a good understanding on how DMX works and so much more will just drop into place.

[djbluephoenix]

I will explaine a little about DMX addresses to you. Perhaps you do not understand how this works yet:

In fixture creator you set up only the NUMBER of DMX channels the fixture will use. This has nothing to do with the real address.
In FreeStyler you have to set the FIRST chennel when adding a fixtur.
Your fixture is now patched to the first channel. The fixture itselfe knows how many channels it uses and will listen for dmx values to these amount of channels after the first one you definde by the dip switches. FreeStyler knows how many channels to use for this fixture from the fixture file.

So if you want to use a 5-channel fixture at the DMX addresses 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 you have to set the number of DMX channels in fixture creator to 5. In FreeStyler when adding the fixture you set the start address to 7. And you dip switches will set to 7 as well.

so for this laser in order for me to use channel 1 and 3 i would switch the dip switches 1 and 3 to the "down" position leaving the rest up?.. that way when i go into free styler channel 1 would be set to "0-255" whichever controls channel 3 then i have my 16 gobos on channel 3 which are "0-255". 5 being the first gobo 17 being the second and so on, then my laser SHOULD react to the values i put into freestyler. am i correct?

i have two microh virus 30's plus a duobeam mk2 and it doesnt seem to do anything . wish it was easier then it looks

[jonny b good]

I will explaine a little about DMX addresses to you. Perhaps you do not understand how this works yet:

In fixture creator you set up only the NUMBER of DMX channels the fixture will use. This has nothing to do with the real address.
In FreeStyler you have to set the FIRST chennel when adding a fixtur.
Your fixture is now patched to the first channel. The fixture itselfe knows how many channels it uses and will listen for dmx values to these amount of channels after the first one you definde by the dip switches. FreeStyler knows how many channels to use for this fixture from the fixture file.

So if you want to use a 5-channel fixture at the DMX addresses 7, 8, 9, 10 and 11 you have to set the number of DMX channels in fixture creator to 5. In FreeStyler when adding the fixture you set the start address to 7. And you dip switches will set to 7 as well.

so for this laser in order for me to use channel 1 and 3 i would switch the dip switches 1 and 3 to the "down" position leaving the rest up?.. that way when i go into free styler channel 1 would be set to "0-255" whichever controls channel 3 then i have my 16 gobos on channel 3 which are "0-255". 5 being the first gobo 17 being the second and so on, then my laser SHOULD react to the values i put into freestyler. am i correct?

i have two microh virus 30's plus a duobeam mk2 and it doesnt seem to do anything . wish it was easier then it looks

NO NO NO

The dipswitches are only for setting the address of where your laser is in the possible 512 channels. They have nothing to do with the values being sent to the laser only what address to send them too.

Start a new show in FreeStyler and add one of these fixtures, you will see the address as 1. See the adding and removing fixtures in FreeStyler tutorial on the FreeStyler wiki for more information.
Now on one of your lasers set dispswitch 1 to on and the rest off. This laser is now at address 1, and so will it be in FreeStyler. Now they can talk with each other.
Only have the one laser conencted to your interface and switched on.
In FreeStyler click the patched fixture from the main screen and you will see the sliders to the right side of the screen, hover over them to get them to appear.
Open the windows for this fixture, click the shown icon.

windows.png

Which will open all these window panels.

all_windows.png

I have clicked the 1 in the Macros panel, which then enables channel 2 and then I have selected one of the Gobos from the first gobo wheel.
If you click the 2 in the Macro panel you can then choose an image from gobo wheel 2 and then use all the other controls to control the laser.

Hope that is understandable, you must get to grips with DMX addressing and DMX channels and DMX channel values, without getting this information correct in your head you may as well give up and take up the crayon and paper, I am not being funny.

[jonny b good]

Your second laser would be at address 9
Your third laser would be at address 17
Patch them in FreeStyler and you will see that it shows the dipswitch settings for these addresses.
If not read on the DMX Wiki about dipswitches in the definitions part.

[LJ_krede.dk]

if you still not understand the DMX 512 protocol, try to watch these four videos:

[youtube] qEkkRfyszqk [/youtube]

[youtube] X9DClSPqhIY [/youtube]

[youtube] E4YN41hgHeg [/youtube]

[youtube] ZxCe6iM6bIA [/youtube]

[jonny b good]

Oh yes, I forgot about those, very helpful. Well done Kristian

[djbluephoenix]

alright im beginning to understand now what addresses our and what channels are and im going to show you what i have in the program and what on the laser

FROM THE MANUAL:

Channel 1 is master DMX Channel. This is used to put the unit in sound active
mode, DMX512 Image Mode 1(channel 2), DMX Image Mode 2(channel 3), Auto and Blackout. Please
see the values in the chart above for desired effect.

Channel 3 Control: To access all single Images on Channel 3, Channel 1 must
be set to a value between 102-152. Note: In this mode Channel 2 is inactive.
Channels 4 to 8 are used to control the individual Images as selected.

---------------------------------------

ok so heres what i have in the program


and heres the back of my laser


-------------------

now i think i have everything correct now if i don't please correct me but i'm pretty sure i've got it now >.<

oh and nothing happens when my laser is connected. ive tried all three of them seperately (they all cant not be working grr)

[remco_k]

Wrong dip switch setting.
FreeStyler shows an example dip switch setting of how it would be set in some fixtures. Maybe inverted, or mirrored or make no sense at all. Depends on your fixture.
Your fixtures dipswitches work otherwise then FS shows. The picuture is'nt really sharp, but do I see the word "ON" on the left top of the red dip switch?
If yes, then that switch should be up and the rest down - makeing your fixture to respond from DMX channel 1. This info is to be found in the manual also.

But take a closer look at dip 10. It does NOT control the DMX channel setting (as DMX channels use at most 9 bits. Never 10 or more).
It might be a switch to enable/disable DMX completely. So make sure you set it right.

[djbluephoenix]

aaarrrrgggg still nothing ... its really fustrating when everything is correct and nothing works...

still doing lots of reading

yeah in the manual dipswitch 10 needs to be off either way it doesnt work when dipswitch 1 was up and every other switch is down still nothing and when switch 1 is down and all the switches are up there was still nothing, one setting has to be correct and ive tried them both..

[jonny b good]

As remco_k says ... swap all of those switches around, so 1 is up and all the others are down, that will set address 1 and ensure it's DMX mode (dipswitch 10 off).

Also I can't see the laser in the fixtures list, so what address is that fixture patched at ?????? The address that it is showing is if you was to patch a fixture. Show us the real patch. as below.

patch_virus.png

Go to the menu "Edit>Show Output" you should get the following, I also have selected the "2" macro and the "Dot" on the 2nd gobo wheel, so you can see the values being output.

output_virus.png

I am also assuming you have got the "Enttec open DMX" selected in the "Setup>FreeStyler Setup" menu, then "Interface setup>Controller".