Using freestyler rather than a pearl for a gig soon :)

[LJ_krede.dk]

I have the speed control asigned to the faders on the bcf so I can control the first 8 and then I change page on the bcf and control the next 8 and so on.

This is done by programing the bcf. My setup keeps all buttons and encoders the same on each page and only the fader values change.
Hope this makes sense to you. Its not perfect but it works for me.

a good workaruond but you still have to press two times: one push to change submaster page and one push to change Sequence Speeds (1-8. 9-16, 17-20), right?

[LJ_krede.dk]

okay, I got it working like this:
when I press "button 1" on my nanokontrol, I can control seq speed 1-5 on encoder 1-5 and submaster 1-5 on fader and the two buttons on 1-5
when I press "button 2" on my nanokontrol, I can control seq speed 6-10 on encoder 1-5 and submaster 6-10 on fader and the two buttons on 1-5
when I press "button 3" on my nanokontrol, I can control seq speed 11-15 on encoder 1-5 and submaster 11-15 on fader and the two buttons on 1-5
when I press "button 2" on my nanokontrol, I can control seq speed 16-20 on encoder 1-5 and submaster 16-20 on fader and the two buttons on 1-5

Just like we want it but it was really complex to get it to work and it takes a bit of explanation to tell you guys how I did it,

You need to use the program change note. if MIDI-OX recieves this, it can call different mappings. this way you can map the encoders to match the submaster page.

unfortunately the nanocontrol can't send out program change notes, but the BCF can, so it is much easier to set it up on that controller.

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READ THIS IF YOU USE A NANOKONTROL OR ANY OTHER MIDI CONTROLLER WHICH CAN'T SEND OUT PROGRAM CHANGE NOTES:: IF IT CAN (like the BCF2000) SKIB THIS.

if you use the nanokorg you have to open an extra MIDI-OX where the MIDI from the naonkorg enters before the second MIDI-OX. remember to set both MIDI-OX up so the the signal goes through these two before it enters FS
Here you have to make one mapping:
submaster page buttons 1-4 (value 1) when the value2 is 127--> set it to send out program change notes 1-4
Make sure you set a checkmark at "Pass Original Value on (Clone)".
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FOR ALL MIDI CONTROLLERS:

1) with the BCedit program you have to change the 4 buttons (you cant use next and prev submaster page for this trick) to send out program change 1-4.
2) in MIDI-OX you have to make 4 filters with 1-2 mappings each

Filter 1
Mapping 1:
program change 1-4 --> control change 1-4

Lets save the filter as "filter 1" for this tutorial

Filter 2
Mapping 1:
program change 1-4 --> control change 1-4
Mapping 2:
The control change numbers for the 5 encoders/fader you want to use as speed (lets say number 1-5 to simplify this tutorial) --> set the control change number to 6-10

Save the filter as "filter 2"

Filter 3
Mapping 1:
program change 1-4 --> control change 1-4
Mapping 2:
The control change numbers for the 5 encoders/fader you want to use as speed (lets say number 1-5 to simplify this tutorial) --> set the control change number to 11-15

Save the filter as "filter 3"

Filter 4
Mapping 1:
program change 1-4 --> control change 1-4
Mapping 2:
The control change numbers for the 5 encoders/fader you want to use as speed (lets say number 1-5 to simplify this tutorial) --> set the control change number to 16-20

Save the filter as "filter 4"

3) go to "Options --> patch mapping" in MIDI-OX main window
4) press assign and find the filter files you have saved:
number 1: Filter 1
number 2: Filter 2
number 3: Filter 3
number 4: Filter 4

now it should work
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I hope you guys understand this... if not, write your issue and I will try to explain it better

[LJ_krede.dk]

I have used some time playing with MIDI-OX and understand how it works a bit better. Now I think I can get any MIDI controller to work as I or you want..
However it is really dificult to explain what i'm doing so if you want me map everything for you send me some information and I wil do it for you.

@ bckeeping. PM me with your wishes and the scene data file for your nanokontrol, so i can see which CC notes i have to map. also send be a description of which faders/encoders/buttons you want to work with the submaster in pear.-style

@ dmxlighting - you can do the same but i'm not that much into the BCF and how the LED rings and motorized faders on the BCF react when i'm mapping. maybe i have to map the output from MIDI-OX to BCF as well, i dont know.

I'm not promise anything But I think i can do something

[dmxlighting]

I have used some time playing with MIDI-OX and understand how it works a bit better. Now I think I can get any MIDI controller to work as I or you want..
However it is really dificult to explain what i'm doing so if you want me map everything for you send me some information and I wil do it for you.

@ bckeeping. PM me with your wishes and the scene data file for your nanokontrol, so i can see which CC notes i have to map. also send be a description of which faders/encoders/buttons you want to work with the submaster in pear.-style

@ dmxlighting - you can do the same but i'm not that much into the BCF and how the LED rings and motorized faders on the BCF react when i'm mapping. maybe i have to map the output from MIDI-OX to BCF as well, i dont know.

I'm not promise anything But I think i can do something

Hey Kristian

Thats so cool stuff you have go into there! Thanks for the offer of mapping but I want to work this out and set it up myself (when I have time!). I will read through all of your info and when / if I get stuck I will be intouch with you.
Well done on all your research, keep up the good work and keep us posted with any new developments.

[bckeeping]

Fanastic work sir!

I am looking to completely change my midi map over the course of today anyway, It has grown organically and requires some tidying! so i'll have a go myself based on your info.

If I get stuck I'll definitely get back in touch

[LJ_krede.dk]

Fanastic work sir!

did you mean fanatic or fantastic work??

so, bckeeping, how did it go? was FS working as a pearl or what ?

last weekend I did lights for different bands with a pearl 2008. I lek the flexibility and the palettes when you dont know any of the bands and the music. I used this guide and cheat sheet which worked pretty well. there is a huge different in how FS and pearl works, at least thats my opinion. FS i better for disco and bands where you can preprogram the show (using the new cue stack plugin). pearl is more flexible in live shows, but cost about 8000 EUR more than FS.

[remco_k]

but cost about 8000 EUR more than FS.

Which depends on what one had donated to Raph.

[bckeeping]

Hi Guys,

Gig is on the 14th now, I am working with Raph on a few patches which might help
Havent taken the pearl off the order as yet, but we will see

I am a massive fan of that desk, even for dance music club events as it gives you lots of flexibility to really "feel" the music and play the lights like an instrument.
You can break your programming down to its consituent parts and then modify, apply and change it at run time, which is nice

As you say FS at the moment is better where there is an opportunity to pre-program a lot of it, but it does have the potential

Thanks for all your help thus LJ, I'll let you know what ends up happening on friday. I have found a company which rents the cheaper and small pearl "tiger" relatively cheaply, so I may get one of those just in case, but try out FS to see if it would work in future

We shall see!

[LJ_krede.dk]

now it is the 18th,,, so how did it go?

[Spirit]

YEAH this page have Solved ALOT of my problems.
First , how BCkeeping wan'ts the comparison About FS and Pearl.(it's just the same as i program a pearl)
Second, that i realy need to learn alot more about MIDI.

Thnks

[bckeeping]

Hi Guys,

We got a pearl in the end I am afraid as we didn't quite get there with the override/palette features. In fact I think we may have even used a Chamsys desk as we wanted to make use of the pixel mapping features.

But I haven't given up and am about to go and log a couple of "feature" requests that I think would plug the gaps if Raph gets the time. I have been out of the loop for a while and a few things seem to have changed.

TBH , freestyler is certainly approaching what the pearl can do, in its latest re-incarnation. I am of course talking about a pearl 2008 or similar, not the new Titan powered ones.

Main differences that I see at the moment in terms of live busking usability would be :
- Ability to create pallettes and apply them as overrides at run time. e.g. for overriding colours etc to specific fixtures (this is the one that we nearly got right in the last release)
- timed palettes - e.g. choosing a position override button and having fixtures move there over a specified period
- Assigning a fader to control LTP channels or parameters such as speed and size of a shape in a memory

Obviously there are a lot of other things that make it £8k too

We have a few more medium sized gigs coming up in the next few months and I'd like to take another look and see if FS might be good enough now.
Particularly given the trials I have had with the touchOSC app in the last few weeks.

[Spirit]

hi i also use the Pearl sometimes, the Pearl Tiger, 2008, 2010 (classic and Tiger mode)

but if i remeber it correct i allready ask the Devolper for:
- Pallet feature
- IF Sm is not used for Ltp it can be used as Speed slider
- Move relative From postion.

There is allready a Featureso you can Move Abosolute to a Postion and set the speed with the speed slider.
but offcourse you can ask it again maby he will make it the next time

/spirit

[bckeeping]

Hi Spirit,

Yup lots of the constituent parts are there. I guess we could ask using the feature request piece and see what drops out.

In fact, the palette feature is there, but you cannot apply a palette using a midi controller or similar while busking, only when programming with the mouse.

Last time we looked at this, Raph implemented a feature where you can apply an override button just to selected fixtures, which is sort of like the palette override on a pearl, but it doesnt *quite* work, because the button stays lit up and if you press it again it turns off.

You are dead right on the speed slider piece, you can use the sequence speed to control this, but there isn't an LTP or a size option as there is a on a pearl.

You can also record shapes as relative can't you?

[Spirit]

the point about freestyler is everything is Aboslute you can only move your heads/mirrors Relative with the pan/tilt window, but not durring live use (SM, cue, Cuelist buttons)

yes i also tried it with the override buttons , Selected fixture but indeed it did not work as on a Pearl.
i use it on a Differnt way, add the color on the SM and Override.
so if i use the Sm all Lights will turn to the Color and if i use the override buttons i can select a group of fixture and add a Other color. so you can chnage color from 2 Differnt groups of lights.

and in the End i dont use the pallet feature allot. like Odd fixtures Color red and Even fixture color blue.
if i use this on Freestyler i will just make a Nice button says Red-blue.

And set the Size from a Shape on a slider i never use this on the pearl but everyone is differnt.

i also like to have Flash button for each submaster.
/spirit