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newer versions not running under XP anymore?

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surfvill
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newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by surfvill » July 29th, 2018, 3:37 pm

I'm on 3.6.31 whitch works quite fine for my little disco usage.

To check out new features (fade In AND fade Out on Overridebuttons?) I did install the last version on my backup machine. I'm using normaly ART-Net but for this Baby I have a simple Monacor 510 Interface. After installing I get the alert "No interface found". I tried serval things but this last version abviously does'nt support my oldschool XP anymore.
Is theee a workaround? For some reasons I can not yet change to win7

After switching back to 3.6.31 everythin works as usual

thanks for any hints in advance



kabak_85
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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by kabak_85 » July 30th, 2018, 10:08 pm

I'm using the 3.6.47 under XP and i had no problem with an generic "open DMX" interface.

It's seems to be an interface related issue cause there's other people with this issue.

Did you try to install Freestyler in a new directory in order to have a "clean install" without old files ?
Did you try to use your monacor interface through Art-net ?
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remco_k
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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by remco_k » August 6th, 2018, 11:18 pm

You really should leave Windows XP as soon as possible. I'm not going to lecture you about how unsafe Windows XP is to use these days - if you are using it online sometimes.

You are holding yourself back with Windows XP. For example: you can't use the newest Sound 2 Light application. It will not work with XP. You are missing out on new features and bug fixes.
FreeStyler might still work at the moment, but you must take into account that that can and will change some day. That may even come as a undocumented surprise, as most developers aren't checking (anymore) if they are writing Windows XP compatible applications. (I cannot talk for Raph (the developer of FreeStyler), but I am certainly NOT taking XP into account when developing. Because that would hold *me* back).

Your near future problem is 'drivers' and other (3rd party) software (like S2L).
Hardware vendors are not creating drivers for XP anymore. So if something breaks down in your PC or laptop, (or your DMX interface dies) and you need to replace it, you most probably can't, because you can't buy the older hardware model with an old (XP compatible) driver.

I guess thats why you have a complete backup machine in place. But its a dead end. Definitely. One day you'll find yourself in big soft- or hardware problems that you can't resolve without updating your OS on the spot. You'll be mad at yourself you didn't update earlier.

You should update asap and consider Windows 10 instead of 7.
The only (really, terrible, horrifying, annoying, !@#$#!) part of Win 10 is the lack of being able to simply disable the Windows update process and switch to manual update.
Developer of the Sound 2 Light application (SL.exe) for FreeStyler: https://www.digiplay.nl/fs
Electronics runs on magic smoke. If it escapes, the electronics won't work anymore!
Need a SHOUTcast stream?: https://www.digiplay.nl

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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by kabak_85 » August 8th, 2018, 7:35 pm

remco_k wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 11:18 pm
You really should leave Windows XP as soon as possible. I'm not going to lecture you about how unsafe Windows XP is to use these days - if you are using it online sometimes.
The problem is not the "online". It's where you go.

I had less problem with XP on my old computer than dumb people using Windows 10 when they are downloading and installing adware because they don't read the text in the installers...

And i had a more recent OS on my "primary" computer.
remco_k wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 11:18 pm
as most developers aren't checking (anymore) if they are writing Windows XP compatible applications. (I cannot talk for Raph (the developer of FreeStyler), but I am certainly NOT taking XP into account when developing. Because that would hold *me* back).
It's depend of how you develop your software. Office 2000 works was developed for Windows 95/98 and work perfectly on Vista (i have not tested on most recent OS).
My old HP laserjet 4000n printer and it's "windows 2000" drivers work perfectly on Windows 7 and Windows 8 32 bits.
I had old games that work very well on modern OS and recent games that can't work on the newest OS because they are using "hint" like access violation for "optimisation" or OS specific function.
remco_k wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 11:18 pm
Your near future problem is 'drivers' and other (3rd party) software (like S2L).
Hardware vendors are not creating drivers for XP anymore. So if something breaks down in your PC or laptop, (or your DMX interface dies) and you need to replace it, you most probably can't, because you can't buy the older hardware model with an old (XP compatible) driver.
While it's doing the job, i keep it. If it's broken, i will see what i do with the money i had and i think there's other people who are thinking like me.
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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by remco_k » August 9th, 2018, 1:51 pm

kabak_85 wrote:
August 8th, 2018, 7:35 pm
remco_k wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 11:18 pm
You really should leave Windows XP as soon as possible. I'm not going to lecture you about how unsafe Windows XP is to use these days - if you are using it online sometimes.
The problem is not the "online". It's where you go.
"It's where you go" is a part of the problem source. There are many things that can cause old or not updated OS-es to be exposed to malware/virusses/etc easily.
For example: If you have your Windows XP computer in a network (most people do, via Wifi or LAN), and there is an infected (malware/virus/something) device (pc, laptop, phone) in the same network, then the Windows XP pc is most probably easily targeted. Without you even using it. If its switched on, its enough in many cases.
I had less problem with XP on my old computer than dumb people using Windows 10 when they are downloading and installing adware because they don't read the text in the installers...
Thats a user error. Not an OS error.
Same problems existed in XP.
remco_k wrote:
August 6th, 2018, 11:18 pm
as most developers aren't checking (anymore) if they are writing Windows XP compatible applications. (I cannot talk for Raph (the developer of FreeStyler), but I am certainly NOT taking XP into account when developing. Because that would hold *me* back).
It's depend of how you develop your software. Office 2000 works was developed for Windows 95/98 and work perfectly on Vista (i have not tested on most recent OS).
My old HP laserjet 4000n printer and it's "windows 2000" drivers work perfectly on Windows 7 and Windows 8 32 bits.
You are describing: Using Older software on newer OS-es. This is where the newer OS-es are doing a great job: being able to run old-skool software.
But its the other way around as what I was pointing out.

I was targeting new software, written today, that most probably will not work or not run at all on old Windows XP machines, because a developer needs to take this into account when developing.
I had old games that work very well on modern OS and recent games that can't work on the newest OS because they are using "hint" like access violation for "optimisation" or OS specific function.
"Access Violation" is not a hint or a hidden or secret optimisation message. Its a result of a bug in the software (and an unhandled error) you are using. It may occur in countless cases. This case: Most probably because the software is trying to do something (a OS call) that is not possible on the target OS. When such a situation is handled correctly internally in the software, it will show you a more informative message such as "Could not open audio device". When its not handled correctly, any error message or (undocumented) behavior might appear. Among that is "Access Violation".
...and i think there's other people who are thinking like me.
I would have to disagree on that.
Developer of the Sound 2 Light application (SL.exe) for FreeStyler: https://www.digiplay.nl/fs
Electronics runs on magic smoke. If it escapes, the electronics won't work anymore!
Need a SHOUTcast stream?: https://www.digiplay.nl

kabak_85
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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by kabak_85 » August 9th, 2018, 11:41 pm

remco_k wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 1:51 pm
Thats a user error. Not an OS error.
Same problems existed in XP.
Most problems i had seen is caused by the user itself, not by the OS.
remco_k wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 1:51 pm
You are describing: Using Older software on newer OS-es. This is where the newer OS-es are doing a great job: being able to run old-skool software.
But its the other way around as what I was pointing out.
Backward compatibility is not as good as you say. You can't use old win16 app on new OS. Some old software had GUI problem or crash.
remco_k wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 1:51 pm
"Access Violation" is not a hint or a hidden or secret optimisation message. Its a result of a bug in the software (and an unhandled error) you are using. It may occur in countless cases. This case: Most probably because the software is trying to do something (a OS call) that is not possible on the target OS.
I had an software which work well on windows 9X and crash with a violation access on 2000/XP/Vista/7 because it's sharing the same memory area in order to exchange data (old MS-DOS techniques).
On new OS, this method is forbidden so the OS say "violation access".

There's old app using direct access under DOS, they were ported to Win9X using direct access to peripheral. Same thing. WIndows 2000 and after protect the memory and kill the program.

There is old software that didn't using the timers but using execution speed and calculate how many iteration it have to do in order to have the good timing. These "real time" method is not compatible with speculative execution.


And some software are using only basic function in order to ensure backward/forward compatibility. Hardest to create than using API but it can be most effective.
remco_k wrote:
August 9th, 2018, 1:51 pm
For example: If you have your Windows XP computer in a network (most people do, via Wifi or LAN), and there is an infected (malware/virus/something) device (pc, laptop, phone) in the same network, then the Windows XP pc is most probably easily targeted. Without you even using it. If its switched on, its enough in many cases.
"recent" OS are not safer. Windows 10 and 7 was not spared by Wannacry. It's the same vulnerabilities. It's sound crazy but Win 9x was not concerned by this problem because it's not base on Win2000 source code ...
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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by remco_k » August 10th, 2018, 9:11 am

Your answer contains some wrong assumptions and (even if it was true) is not explaining your reason(s) as to why users should not update from XP to Win 7 or 10.
Developer of the Sound 2 Light application (SL.exe) for FreeStyler: https://www.digiplay.nl/fs
Electronics runs on magic smoke. If it escapes, the electronics won't work anymore!
Need a SHOUTcast stream?: https://www.digiplay.nl

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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by Raunt » August 10th, 2018, 4:44 pm

Windows XP was/is a great piece of software, but I made the jump about a year ago and never looked back. I refused to switch for ages so you could say I'm a big XP guy. Or more precisely, I was.

surfvill
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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by surfvill » August 24th, 2018, 7:32 pm

As we've seen in the other thread - it was a problem with the DMX-Interface (Monacor 512)!

Otherwise XP: My production rack has a 19"-PC with 2HDs in RAID1 - Solid as a rock! There are no (never!) an internet connection and no software updates (the OS doesn't need it anyway!) - and never a pen drive in the USB socket! If the last Sound2Light version doesn't run under XP (what a pitty!) - well so I have to stick with my running 3.6.31... Yet I don't have any reason to change the OS for a sound2light module.

In general: My backup-Laptop I'm heaving because I'm a controll freak! My production system never ever crashed whilst working a show/party since 2001! First WIN ME and since 2010 XP
b.t.w. - most ATMs in Germany running under XP!!!

I've been helping friends with their WIN8/10 - WHAT A DISASTER! Slow, not handy and updating the OS all the time.
Setting my old Laptop to Standby: 2sec > awake > 2 sec and another 5 sec for Wifi connection. Try with WIN10! Since Vista there is no proper Standby anyway!

Using XP daily - double HW-firewall, Browser in Sandbox, checking Quellcode before open emails from unknown sender and using a virtual keyboard for ALL logins...
The only problem: Firefox will not support XP from this month - let's see... (Sandboxie!!!)

Edit: just checked the Sound2light module which came with the last 3.6.47 under XP - works fine!!! So after the next show tomorrow I'll install this version on my production system. There S2L is sending the trigger to a button vía midi to show me if the threshold is good

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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by MDDT1 » August 29th, 2018, 11:10 am

Use too a Win XP Pro SP3 Toshiba M40X Notebook with Freestyler DMX 3.6.47 all Run fine.

Works too with Windows 7 Starter Netbook and Windows 8.1 on a 7" HP Stream Tablet

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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by remco_k » August 29th, 2018, 12:24 pm

surfvill wrote:
August 24th, 2018, 7:32 pm
Edit: just checked the Sound2light module which came with the last 3.6.47 under XP - works fine!!! So after the next show tomorrow I'll install this version on my production system. There S2L is sending the trigger to a button vía midi to show me if the threshold is good
I meant the S2L version 2 which is currently in beta stage. Its downloadable here: https://www.digiplay.nl/cms/index.php?p ... nd-2-light

As said before, it will not work on Windows XP. (It will startup, but will not recognize any audio devices).
S2L version 1 will stay available here for download for that case, so whenever S2L V2 is included in the default FreeStyler setup, you will be able to install v1 manually if you're still running Windows XP at that time.
Developer of the Sound 2 Light application (SL.exe) for FreeStyler: https://www.digiplay.nl/fs
Electronics runs on magic smoke. If it escapes, the electronics won't work anymore!
Need a SHOUTcast stream?: https://www.digiplay.nl

surfvill
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Posts: 11
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Re: newer versions not running under XP anymore?

Post by surfvill » September 4th, 2018, 6:33 pm

Hey Remco, thanks for the link - it will help me alot! There is no reason to change OS on my production system!

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