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Tap Sync problem with suggestion

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AFNick
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Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by AFNick »

I am not new to DMX, but I am relatively new to the Freestyler program. I like it so far, and it has been the most user friendly program that I have gotten working reliably with my Enttec ODE. My big issue with the program comes from using it as a controller for lighting on live music concerts. I have read that others have had the same experience as me, but when I try to use the Tap Sync feature to sync the light show steps to the beat of the music, the beat that results when perform a tap on my trackpad or a mouse ALWAYS ends up being slower than the time that I tap in with my finger. I end up trying to tap the beat in faster so I can fool it into being correct, but I usually end up wasting too much time trying to get it right, and rarely get it to match.

My feature request comes in two parts. First I would like for someone to check the tap sync function to ensure that it is functioning as intended. If not, it needs to be fixed to correct this problem. The second part of the feature request is a BPM readout that goes along with the tap button, and a two button (up/down) adjustment, so that the operator can manually adjust the tap if the one that you tap in doesn't quite get in correctly.

As a live sound engineer, I know that Yamaha have incorporated at "Tap Tempo" function in to their effects engines on their live sound consoles. This "Tap Tempo" takes the average from three taps, instead of just to and it comes out quite accurate.

Just a quick suggestion in the hopes that something can be done to improve the accuracy of the Tap Sync feature.

Thanks for an otherwise great program and I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this idea.


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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by remco_k »

I didn't use FreeStyler for a long time now, but from what I remember of it, the Tap Sync drifted quite a while from the intended speed. So from that I can confirm it drifted away to far, to fast. But that was years ago. So therefore I cannot confirm it still does.

You can try and use the sound 2 light (S2L) plugin, that is, ofcourse, intended to do automatic triggering, but it also supports tap sync by pressing the beat button yourself. It will then show you the BPM, and send triggers to FreeStyler.
With K/G (Keep on Going) enabled in the config, S2L holds the speed you just entered and triggers the same rythm infinite. When it does go out of sync, you can easily resync by pressing the beat button a few times. Just like you can in sound consoles.
Therefore you must have started the automatic sound to light process using the start button. But since I assume you do not want it do trigger automatic to music that S2L hears via a mic or line-in, you need to make sure it hears nothing.
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AFNick
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by AFNick »

That sounds promising rmeco_k, I will give that a shot to see what I can do with it. I think it would be easy enough to include a BPM display in or near the Tap Sync button within the main Cuelist interface. I also think that a manual adjustment would be helpful, as I have used it in other lighting apps. Again thanks for your feedback.
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by prefectart »

if you could get some sort of midi in picking up tempo, that would be amazing. you could have the taps override it, or toggle between the tapped tempo and what the midi in is picking up, or something like that. im trying to figure out how to hard sync lights up to my drum machine currently. shit is tricky.
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by remco_k »

With the current available functionality I would suggest to pass the audio from you drum machine to S2L, without mixing in other audio from other equipment.
Or whenever possible (this is what some bands with drumkits do), pass only the audio of the kick drum to S2L.
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by Spirit »

Hi
i made the request back then to make the tap sync work how it today does.
before you needed to tap 3 times, not 2 or 4 otherwise you reset the tap sync which was realy ignoring.
so only 3,6,9, and so taps where allowed.

and the issue you have ist because of the tap sync i think. but the system.
maby you noticed it but the highest resolution is only 0.1

here you can see Second and BPM http://www.buzzmachines.com/reviewfiles/Bpm2Seconds.txt
as you can see the higher the BPM the more ecurate the second needs to be. like 0.01 differnce.

and the tap sync is related to the system so i think thats the resolution you have. otherwise the devolper need to change allot!. to his system.

the best result you can get is to use the "manuel tap" with Midi. so you need to have a other source to give the beat. to get a better result.
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by remco_k »

If its true that the tap sync system in FreeStyler has a resolution of 0.1 (sec?) (that is 100 msec), then I think that this is something to consider improving and increase the resolution to 0.001 (1 msec). Just looking the numbers, this is a massive improvement. It could be a lot of work in the internal structure of FS, it could also be easy. It just depends on how it is setup internally.

Like I told earlier, S2L also has an internal tap and beat lock (Keep Going) mechanism, that works with a 1 msec resolution.
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by Laudrin »

Unfortunately, the problem persist with recent version 3.6.49. :-(

This is a major problem for busking light shows. With the Grand MA of a venue I worked at, I regularly used the tap function and could tweak the BMP value up and down (relative up/down, not absolute) via data dial.

In Freestyler, this function is so inaccurate that it is not usable for syncing a light show to the music unless you keep tapping though the whole song.

As soon as I stop pressing the tap sync button I mapped on a computer keyboard key, the tap tempo delays and slows down. For example, if I use a sequence changing only from red to green and try to sync to a mid-tempo dance track. I get green for the first bar's first beat, red for the second's one (it should be | g r g r | g r g r |, with the change on every beat).

Like Spirit and remco_k, my first idea was that internal resolution is only 100 ms, which would be too inaccurate.

And I second the beat counter display and (like on a MA) relative increment and decrement of the BPM value, as AFNick suggested.

I wonder how other users solved this problem. If anyone uses the tap function successfully in sync, can you please explain how? Thank you!
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by Partyman »

Most of the time I use the line in method with the s2l trigger. No need for tap then. You can also adjust how many beats it reacts to.
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by Vincent1982 »

Hello,

I have the same problem.
I'm using Freestyler for lighting a show and I have to use the Manual Tap button the whole song to get the tempo right.

On a showtec table dmx, I have a fader cursor to adjust the BPM.
Is it possible to add a "cursor" assignable to a midi cursor because I use an APC midi Akai console?

Thank you so much
Best Regards
Vincent
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Re: Tap Sync problem with suggestion

Post by remco_k »

Vincent1982 wrote: April 14th, 2022, 6:30 pm Hello,

I have the same problem.
I'm using Freestyler for lighting a show and I have to use the Manual Tap button the whole song to get the tempo right.
Try to set up and use S2L properly might just solve the entire need of using the Manual Tap button for you.
Developer of the Sound 2 Light application (SL.exe) for FreeStyler: https://www.digiplay.nl/fs
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