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Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

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Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by bckeeping »

Hi Guys,

One other request, again if I am missing something please let me know.
Would it be possible to have direct access to more submasters on a single page without having to go through to different pages.
More specifically would it also be possible to have direct access to more submasters through external control, i.e. keyboard or midi without having to swap pages.


This would be great for midi control from for example the behringer device or in the silly case, a couple of Wiimotes.

Is this already possible, would it be useful for others?
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by Tom0101 »

Actually a nice idea, more submasters would be great, especially for fast midi control!

It would be also great to have submasters which are independent from the cues.
You would just assign a scene direct to a subaster, without adding it to the cuelist.
That would be nice for generic lights.
And while we're at it, simulated faders for the touchscreen would be very nice ;)
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by infinity6 »

I agree 100%. being limited to only 5 submasters at a time limits my ability to make multiple changes quickly.

And rather than just requesting more submasters, I'd like to request the ability for users to choose how many submasters per tab are visible. For my purposes, 8 submasters per tab would work great for me, but I could see how some people like 5, others may want only 4, while others might want 12 per tab.

Another factor that affects how many submasters per tab would be most efficient is screen resolution. I was running on an older laptop that could only do 1024 x 768, but my newer laptop's native resolution is 1600 x 1200. I could see up to 20 submasters at a time at that screen resolution if I could only make that many visible.

Thanks for the great software Raph! :fs: Hope you hear my suggestion! ;)
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by infinity6 »

And another thing....

Hope I'm not sounding too demanding here, just thinking of things that would make Freestyler even better for me, and therefore maybe a lot of you out there too.

Since we're limited to 20 sequences in any cue list, it would be GREAT if the submaster window were tall enough that I can see all 20 sequences in my cue lists without having to use a scroll bar. However, that may be too big for those that don't fill their cue lists to capacity. So to make the submaster window more useful to every, I would suggest/request making it re-sizeable. Then all users who use the submasters could make it the perfect size for their needs!

Most of my enhancement requests are things I see that would speed up the use Freestyler's interface, thus allowing changes to be made faster and therefore more pertinent to the music as it is happening in real time. My primary use is in lighting design and running lights as a live operator. The faster I can respond in real time the better the show!

Thanks again! :fs:
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by bckeeping »

PPPppllleeease sir, can we have some more, can we, please? :)

or at the very least, can we control the submaster on page 2 directly from midi without having to change page, or something like that? :P
Am I completely alone in finding the 5 submaster limit a bit of a difficulty, particularly when most midi controllers have 9 faders or more?

Would this be a massive piece of work to change Raph? I do understand if I am the only one, but I have been having difficulty in finding other ways to op that get around the problem while allowing the LJ to react quickly to changes i the music.

I tend to set up my submasters as follows :
1- Movements
2 - colour schemes (some chases, some static)
3 - Gobos/effects (at the moment this includes shutter chases)
4 - Strobing speeds (static through to fast strobing)
5 - Laser presets

However, it leaves little scope for seperating out groups of fixtures such as parcans from the scans etc. I have to combine shutter chases on the scans with shuttering on the cans for example and then use overrides to switch each group on and off. I can't mix and match between.

Does that all make any sense at all? Any advice would be appreciated in the absence of getting more directly controllable submasters :)
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

I would agree that more subs per page would be useful!
Also more sequencies per cue sheet would help.

I would hazard a guess that it would be hard work for Raph or he may have done this already.

Still, heres hoping!
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by bckeeping »

*Bump* ;o)

I know this is probably a difficult one to do, but having seen the rather lovely tutorial on submasters in the main forum....
Thanks for that :)

It would be reallly good to have access to more subs from a single page, or at the least be able to control more than the current 5 through midi without changing pages.

Raph, is this very difficult in terms of assigning midi controls to directly the submasters on Page 2 as well as 1? It would be preferable if you could see them all on one page, but even a quick and dirty hack just allowing them to be assigned would be most helpful.

Most midi controllers provide more than the 5 submasters and once your movements, colours etc for a rig are split out, you quickly run out!

So please Raph, can we have some more ? :D
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

This would mean that there would have to be more cues in the cue list > 40 cues = 40 submasters, double the current amount!.

I would like to have 10 sm's per page and would be happy with just 2 pages, so still only 20 sm's.
I suppose having all sm's on display at one time could be useful. Might become a problem setting up a BCF2000 to control it in a coherant manner.
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

Onge wrote:It would be very useful to have more on a page, I am used to having more. Lightfactory has 20 per page and 10 pages
How many sequences per sm can you have in Lightfactory?
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by bckeeping »

I would agree that at least 10 would be good number given that most midi controllers provide this number of faders. it would be good to have direct control of them where possible.

And as you say, a couple of pages would probably be plenty.

Of course having the ability to have 20 and 10 pages would always be nice :P

is it possible to have submasters from different pages on at once, for example submaster 1 and submaster 7(page2)?
What happens if you then press go on submaster 6 (page 2 same slot as submaster 1)?

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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

bckeeping wrote: is it possible to have submasters from different pages on at once, for example submaster 1 and submaster 7(page2)?
What happens if you then press go on submaster 6 (page 2 same slot as submaster 1)?
Yes you can run all 20 submasters at one time. You do need to be on the relevant page to select go, back , run, stop, intensity. If you have a BCF2000 or if you use keyboard shorts, set up so you can quickly change page and then what ever you have set up to navigate the 5 sm's will be the same no matter which page you are on. Make sense?
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by bckeeping »

Yes indeed, in which case it would definitely be good if you could get direct control of those 20 (or 10 if necessary) without having to swap page. Othewise what do you use your spare 5 faders on the BCF for? ;)
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

How have you got your bcf configured?

I mean how do you use your bcf2000 to control fs, please give as much detail as poss.
Im a nosey person how is interested in how different folk use and control fs.
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by paulblakely »

I understand that I'm sort of bringing a two month old topic back from the dead, but I just worked on a concert that could have very well done better with more submasters available. I used two Behringer BCF 2000s for control, but as it stood, I was only able to use one of them for playback, and even then, only five of the sliders per page. I used the sliders for intensity, the two buttons above the slider for forward/back, and then pressed the encoder for "go." Since I needed more than one page, I used the four buttons on the bottom right to select the submaster page. Having both fully used though, would allow me to not have to worry about page and I could have had all of my submasters directly available. Does anybody know if this ability is in the works or not?
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by Shannon D »

I just wanted to add my vote here for more submasters too. Please :fs: :fs: :fs:
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by LJ_krede.dk »

we have been talking about this for a long time.. did anybody notify raph about this request?

there should be a system where people can request new features, where some people (like onge, dmxlighting and remco_k) can reject features which is already in FS (or impossible to do). the rest of the requests should be handled by raph (this could also work for bug reporting) .... or is it too much work? right now I think there is some good ideas in this forum, but nobody knows if the ideas are put into reality
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

LJ_krede.dk wrote:we have been talking about this for a long time.. did anybody notify raph about this request?

there should be a system where people can request new features, where some people (like onge, dmxlighting and remco_k) can reject features which is already in FS (or impossible to do). the rest of the requests should be handled by raph (this could also work for bug reporting) .... or is it too much work? right now I think there is some good ideas in this forum, but nobody knows if the ideas are put into reality

There is some good points here. I guess that the current system does rely on Raph actually looking in this section and then commenting on the merit of each request. As you say, even if a request is implemented it may not be obvoius and again if an idea is not possible for whatever reason then it should be stated as such. Im not sure what the best way of doing this would be but I do agree that we need to have a better system. The system would have be, as you said, filtered before being sent to Raph. I dont think he's going to appreciate being bombarded with direct requests from the public forums.
Perhaps we could look through all the requests so far and make up a list of popular ones (like more submasters) and then forward it on to Raph for his consideration and then post the results back for everyone to see.
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by richard csl »

Hang on a minute, surely Ralph wrote all this software, and to my knowledge this is the only forum associated with FS, so surely Ralph reads the comments on his software on a daily basis, or am I very much mistaken here.??

T%hat being the case he must surely evaluate what suggestions he will encorporate in the next release. all this being the case he is the unpaid programmer and as such does this as and when he feels like it, as he is not being paid.

All of us get paid for our respective jobs. I feel sure Ralph also has a job, so FS is either a hobby, or he is just very generous with his time, either way if we want alterations to his software, it might be a good idea to click the " make a donation " button if you want some suggestion seriously.
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

I know that Raph is a busy guy and not that active on this forum as you would probably think.
He does appear on here from time to time but I'm not so sure he trawls through all the posts.
What you say about making donations is valid I guess but at the end of the day it's the property of one man and he will only do what he wants to or what can reasonably be done.
We the adoring fans of this software can only ask....

'Please sir can we have........'
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by luge »

Just a friendly bump, as this is really the only problem I'm having with FreeStyler at the moment. I would love to have 8 (or even better user configurable) submasters for each page. Would make busking a live show a lot easier and simpler.

Another option would be to have a master Go button. This way you could get the changes setup on each page, then hit the master Go button and have all the submasters, including the pages not shown, change at once. Implementation of this should be easier as you only need to add 1 new Keyboard/Midi mapping.

Thanks for all the other work and updates you've been doing, and I look forward to using FreeStyler in a month or so for some live shows! :D
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

luge wrote: Another option would be to have a master Go button. This way you could get the changes setup on each page, then hit the master Go button and have all the submasters, including the pages not shown, change at once.
This has been mentioned before and is by far one of the best ideas for an addition to FS. I think it could easily be implemented and really hope Raph picks this idea up.

I have my doubts that the 'more submasters' request is ever going to happen as 'we' have been asking about it for quite some time now and there has not been any hints that it could happen.

A 'Master Go' button could be the answer to lots of peoples problems with controlling FS, I for one would make great use of such a tool!
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by Mavi »

I do not use MIDI to controll FS yet, but from other software I know there is a possibility to use one MIDI command to execute several commands in the software.

Would it be possibly to assaigne one button from you external controller to all the submuster go buttons? Then you can select all sequences you want to run next and hit this buton to start them all at the same time.

As I told you I do not have the possibilty to test this because I have no MIDI controller at my side. Just a suggestion. Perhaps you want to check if it works.
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by LJ_krede.dk »

Mavi wrote:I do not use MIDI to controll FS yet, but from other software I know there is a possibility to use one MIDI command to execute several commands in the software.

Would it be possibly to assaigne one button from you external controller to all the submuster go buttons? Then you can select all sequences you want to run next and hit this buton to start them all at the same time.
Arg, why didn't I think of that :o you cant set up a midi controller different MIDI notes to Freestyler from one button. However you can use MIDI-OX to do that for you!! it can onlye be done on the current Submaster which is active.

make a filter that maps a CC note from the MIDI controller to the five Toggle buttons. However you have to have changed all 5 submasters when u press the new button you have designed, otherwise some submasters will stop, because you use the same button to turn the submasters on and off
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by dmxlighting »

@ LJ Krede - Again the midi ox software and you have come up with a good work around for an FS missing feature.

The problems are that you MUST change all the sm's on the current tab before using this method and you can ONLY use it on the current sm tab.

Im going to ask Raph if he will look at the possiblity of adding the 'Master Go'. Meatime your workaround could be useful to me.

Kristian - Are you able to come to London in September ?
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Re: Please sir, could we have more submasters on one page

Post by LJ_krede.dk »

dmxlighting wrote: The problems are that you MUST change all the sm's on the current tab before using this method and you can ONLY use it on the current sm tab.
exactly!!.. Thats what I tried to say in my previous post :D
LJ_krede.dk wrote:make a filter that maps a CC note from the MIDI controller to the five Toggle buttons. However you have to have changed all 5 submasters when u press the new button you have designed, otherwise some submasters will stop, because you use the same button to turn the submasters on and off
dmxlighting wrote: Kristian - Are you able to come to London in September ?
I will look into it!
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