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When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: May 27th, 2018, 11:02 pm
by FabioeM
When I move the moving head, the LED PARs goes off.

What can I do wrong? Can it be be bug?

It already happened to me, but happened again at a wedding (fortunately before, and i set the moving heads for manual operation, Freestyler used only the led pars)
I made a video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDa1wC5MB6w&t=1s

I only used Led par 1-4,and the 2 moving head (we call them robot in Hungary, sorry for it in the video).
I attached the address settings, and some other settings (maybe to solve the problem)

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: May 28th, 2018, 7:28 am
by remco_k
Either you have a serious cabling issue, or there is a problem in your sequences.

* Please view the 'Show output' window of FreeStyler. Here you can see the actual DMX values being sent to your fixtures. Check if FreeStyler is sending changing values to fixtures, when you think it should not. If that happens, most likely there is a problem in your sequences.
* When the above dmx values are correct and not changing for a certain led par fixture, and you are still seeing the actual fixture to change its light output, then you might have a serious DMX cabling issue.

Other things to try:
* Some fixtures have built in programs, and have a kind of master/slave mode so following fixtures follows that same build in program, maybe you accidentally trigger this mode, which overrides the DMX signal in the following fixtures in the DMX chain.
* Trial and error: Connect ONE led par fixture to your DMX output, and nothing else, and see if its showing the problem. If it works correctly, keep on adding one fixture at a time and retest.

My initial guess would be a DMX cabling issue. Which may have one of these causes:
* There's a defective cable somewhere in the chain. For example: a soldering connection in a XLR connector has given up and disconnected completely. Yet, the DMX chain may still work, but will show strange behavior.
* You are not using DMX cabling, but regular XLR audio cabling. Regular XLR audio cabling could work great. Depending on: the cable quality itself, the total length used, your USB-DMX device, whether or not you are using a terminator, and surrounding interfering equipment.
* You are not using a DMX terminator. Although not using a terminator is mostly not a problem, not using a terminator AND having some other kind of problem with cabling causes the most weird behavior.
* There is a defective fixture in your chain, which destroys the DMX signal in some ways.

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: May 28th, 2018, 9:17 pm
by FabioeM
Thank you for the advice, I'll try to reproduce this problem with one led par, and a moving head.
I don't think it would be a cabling issue.
I used about 11 pars. Tried to disconnect every one of them, one by one, and still not working.
I don't have the lights at me now, but the output seems that the led pars should work (dim channel at 100)
I actually use wireless DMX. I have a transmitter at my laptop, and some lights have wireless receivers plugged in, some are linked from the others. But i don't think it would be an interference.

I don't use DMX terminator. I'll buy some, and test them.

(At a club where i controlled the lights (some pars, 4 pr lighting oving heads), sometimes the moving heads did strange things. It turned out there is a DMX terminator at the end of the chain. We plugged it out, and the problem never occurred again. )

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: May 28th, 2018, 10:38 pm
by FabioeM
I usually have for example 4 led pars having wireless dmx plugged in, and link them with other 3-3-3-3 par lamps, i think I should put the terminator to the 4 piece third led par. That's ok.
But My moving heads are in seperate stand, and the both get a wireless dmx signal. Should i insert a DMX terminator to them, too?

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: May 29th, 2018, 4:56 am
by Partyman
If you are trying to come off a wireless par into a mover that may be your problem. Many years ago i tried what you did and had the same result. After running a hard wire to movers all worked perfect. I have not had any problem using wireless transmitters but if I tried running off of a par with built in wireless it would give me issues. I have no clue where the problem may lie and if it is cureable but I will stay posted

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: May 31st, 2018, 11:28 am
by FabioeM
Partyman wrote:
May 29th, 2018, 4:56 am
If you are trying to come off a wireless par into a mover that may be your problem. Many years ago i tried what you did and had the same result. After running a hard wire to movers all worked perfect. I have not had any problem using wireless transmitters but if I tried running off of a par with built in wireless it would give me issues. I have no clue where the problem may lie and if it is cureable but I will stay posted
Thank you very much! I'll try it.

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: May 31st, 2018, 3:10 pm
by remco_k
FabioeM wrote:
May 28th, 2018, 9:17 pm
It turned out there is a DMX terminator at the end of the chain. We plugged it out, and the problem never occurred again.
If removing a DMX terminator solves a problem, then for sure there is something big wrong somewhere in the chain. If it works, then it works for the time being. But some day it might backfire.


Although I've never worked with wireless DMX myself I can imagine the following:
* Its recommended to terminate each seperate DMX section. Especially if you link multiple lights from the wireless receiver.
* Maybe those wireless receivers are sensitive to noise that the connected light or DMX cabling 'generates' because of the lack of the terminators.
* Maybe you have some cheap of those wireless receivers, and they don't send out a particularly strong signal on the DMX cabling. Lights might work at one moment, and might not (or do strange things) at the other moment, seconds later. Connecting a terminator might solve -OR- cause such a problem in this case.

The lights that are linked, are you using DMX cabling? Or regular mic cabling?

Either way its best to test your entire setup with DMX cabling only, to make sure the problem isn't in your sequences. From there the problem can be investigated further.

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: June 2nd, 2018, 12:48 am
by FabioeM
I thinked about the situation, and I turned off the power of the 2 moving heads, and then tried powering off every one of the chains, and nothing happened. So it shouldn't be the moving heads.
I used wifi dmx, where the pepople would stepped on the cables, and at the other places linked them with regular mic cables.
I know it's the best to use only cables, but it's not possible at walls between doors, where people come and go (and time sparing of course, don't need to spend double or triple time to mess with cables, it is also usually 2 and a half hours to us to set up the whole lights... what could it be when using only cables.... :/ )

So we are trying to solve this situation, we still want to use this wireless dmx thing.
I believe there must be a solution for this situation, too. :)

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: June 2nd, 2018, 8:35 am
by remco_k
I understand you want to use wireless DMX.
But the thing is that we first need to create a test with dmx cabling only, just to see if everything is working properly. So: its a test. Not a definitive solution.
Please do that test, and it will help you forward and find the problem. If fully cabled works ok, you can start replacing with wireless. One at a time, testing you entire setup each time.

Re: When using moving head, led pars doesn't work

Posted: June 10th, 2018, 6:17 am
by FabioeM
Thank you. I will try it, if I will have the place and opportunity to equip all my fixtures.
At home I tried with 1 led par and 1 mocing head, both with wireless dmx and the problem doesn't occur, they worked perfectly.