MIDI Control

[kwelch007]

Hi all,

I've been considering the FS capability of using a MIDI control. I'm thinking of trying to use an old synth/keyboard that I have laying around to trigger various cues/overrides via a MIDI-to-USB converter. Has anyone done this? (I've never seen it, but imagine someone has.) If so, what are the pros and cons?

Thanks!
Kendell

[Spirit]

hi

i know a Friend of mine tried it a couple of years ago.
it worked oke but i wasnt there at that moment.

There are some CONS you need to know.

because FS like to get Controller midi DATA (Example B0 00 00 = Controller Channel1 Note0 Velocity0)
i think a Syth/Keyboard doesnt send this info. (FS can change NoteON NoteOFF midi data in the midi options)
but i do not know which Midi data it send.

but you can also use midi-ox or Bome's miditralator to change the midi data.
also FS (Controller data) uses a Velocity from 0 to 127.
most syth/keyboard uses a Lower range "0 to 90" or other..
this isnt a big issue because you can change this on the Freestyler.ini file..


i Dont know any PROS because this is how the User likes to have it..
Some poeple like to have a Midi controller with ALLOT!! of buttons
as i realy like the BCF2000 Because it works realy nice with the SUBMASTERS.

PS still a midi controller is realy nice to use becuase it works allot faster then the mouse or pcKeyboard

/spirit

[kwelch007]

Cool. Thanks! Think I'll play with it and see what happens.

[jdmyers]

I'm currently using a BRC 2000 (Behringer rotary controller) and am in the process of converting some of my seq and cues to be used with submasters, which I will then use portions of the BRC to manipulate.

Primarily I wanted some control over Master Dimmer, Master Speed, and a few other functions I was unable to set up using the QUERTY assignments for real time or stepped control (to avoid having to mouse or keep certain windows open).

Using DMX-IN or MIDI allows for control of lots of functions that are not available via keyboard assignments. I went with MIDI at the moment as I had some gear sitting around begging to try and pay for itself... and to avoid buying another DMX interface (for now).

The BRC / BFC functions as a USB MIDI device as well as an interface so you can hook up other MIDI equipment (keyboards/controllers). I have also used a MIDISPORT 2x2 with an old MIDI keyboard to trigger things and may hook it up again through the BRC at some point. If your (MIDI) keyboard has some continuous control functions (faders or knobs) you could assign those to control your Master Dimmer and Speed. You can also switch pages if you only have one controller on the keyboard, with a different function being controlled depending on the page you are on. The keys (or any other MIDI sending buttons) can be used for the Note ON/OFF (flash or latch buttons) assignments while your continuous controller(s) can run the dimmers, faders, etc.

As for pros and cons - Some CONs would be:

Adding a MIDI interface:
You have to add a MIDI interface of some sort, unless you have the new DMX-PRO Mk II with built-in MIDI, or a USB controller. (You'll still need to deal with drivers and stuff)
Or
You have to install something like rtp-MIDI (one form of networked MIDI) and get it configured so that you can use something like iphones/ipads/Androids/OSC controllers.

If your controller(s) need to do something not necessarily available in the settings, you'd have to set up MIDI re-routers and translators and such to convert from one form of control to another (things like MIDI-OX, MIDI-Yoke, etc. as mentioned previously by Spirit .)

And:
You have to configure and set up the Freestyler MIDI control section, and save it, for each interface you might use. And remember to activate / load it at start up (I haven't figured out if I can make that automatic or saved and loaded at startup yet).

The Pros: more real(ish) time control of many variable Freestyler functions, from master faders to subgroups, to being able to control a DMX channel directly from a MIDI channel (pretty handy for direct control over fixture functions like strobe / fx speeds, added dimmer packs, etc.)

I currently have my BRC set to control Master Dimmer, Master Speed, a FAVORITE button, a BLACKOUT button, a FADE IN and FADE OUT for pre-timed fades, and a few other controls (MIDI to DMX when needed to control simple dimmer packs) and have PLENTY of buttons and knobs waiting to be used.

I still have a lot of cues and sequences and stuff set to the qwerty keys (and sometimes use a rubber roll-out USB keyboard next to the BRC and keep the laptop out of harms way) but will transition some of those to the BRC and/or MIDI keyboard as my programs and libraries expand.

If you need to borrow a Midisport 2x2 for testing, give me a call / text sometime, Kendell!

/Jimmie

[Spirit]

hi

just for the Fun this is what i did last weekend..
the same friend ask me if i could use the IPAD to control freestyler but i dont realy like the Freestyler app for Live control.

so i used the RealVNC (RDP) to get TUI2 on the ipad .
and i used the USBCamara link for the IPAD to connect the BCF2000 to the ipad and i used a RouterAPP to send the Midi data from the ipad to the pc rtpMIDI.

and it worked realy nice.. the Midi data had a Little!!! delay 30/40mS you did not realy noticed it.
only the RealVNC had a BIG delay but i used the TUI2 to see which seq i selected and for the overridebuttons..

/Spirit

[jdmyers]

Nice - so you MIDI WiFi'ed the BFC through rtpMIDI / Ipad MIDI In, and mostly use the iPad as a remote screen to visualise what the BFC keys/controls are activating?

[Spirit]

to be precise i did this..

BCF -> USBCamera link cable -> ipad -> Midibridge APP -> Wifi -> PC-> rtpMIDI -> Freestyler.

and i made 2 connections Midi in and out...Only Midibrigde app cost me 8Euro but i tried ALLOT!!! of other apps that are free None of them works..

after i bought Midibright i'm so happy because its a Realy!!! nice midi router app... works realy easy.

/spirit

[jdmyers]

http://www.audeonic.com/

Very cool - had a look-see and thought I'd post this link here for others who might happen upon this thread.

More and more, I'm beginning to consider that I should consider getting some form of tablet. Realizing the i-stuff has CoreMIDI (Apple's version of rtpMIDI or vice-versa) and this series of apps kinda makes the ipad look like a nice candidate...

[jdmyers]

Just ran across these two articles that are some-what relevant, so thought I'd also share:

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/chur ... ted/church

http://www.prosoundweb.com/article/chur ... _apply_it/

These are a bit more along the lines of another way I wanted to do it (and may yet still) which was to set up a control layer on my 01V96 mixer for my lights, or to tie in a sound effects & return faders (via MIDI) to control a few things on the lights (ex.: Tap Tempo for a delay would also set a MIDI Tempo, clock, etc. for lights to follow; fading in or out the (audio) effect would activate smoke/fog).

I've had some minor luck, but (unfortunately??) the Yamaha sends out MIDI Hi and MIDI Lo (using two channels for high-resolution ~14 bit vs. single ch. / 8 bit control), so Freestyler keeps locking to the wrong (second sent) control channel and basically just jumps up and down from max to min instead of a smooth 0-127. But the Yamaha has ways of setting General MIDI on other ports, with Standard resolution, that I just have to figure out, without it affecting the way the audio mixing and control portion of the board works. :/


/Jimmie

[kwelch007]

From what I've read, your problem might be fixed by changing the range of the midi signal in Freestyler.ini. But, I've never tried it. I think you want to set it to 0-90, but can't remember for sure. I'll see if I can find a link.

[lindsayward]

Interesting discussion. I'm doing some cool stuff with a show control system including FreeStyler control via MIDI using rtpMIDI and a free program called MultiPlay (https://www.audiovisualdevices.com.au/s ... multiplay/) that can send MIDI signals (and more).

Here's a 'better' link to the article about MIDI over network - it's on the original blog and has links to all 3 parts. That's me asking questions down the bottom. Mike (the author) is a great guy!
http://churchtecharts.org/home/2013/7/5 ... ork-part-3

[jdmyers]

Cool - I was waiting for that third part of the series.

Still haven't had a chance to work on the 01V96 issue(s) I have, as I'm still in the process of programming the BRC-2K encoders n knobs n buttons to work the way I want them to - (No immediate/existing preset available for Freestyler, but when I get it worked out I'll post it here).

So I'd still like to get some control from 01V96 for a few simple things, if nothing else, for a stripped-down setup where I wouldn't need to hook up all the extra MIDI gear.

@ Kendell: it's not to do with the MIDI range - I think what you are referencing is the MIDI "standard" where CC (continuous controllers) have a default number of CCs from 1-90, then there are some "dedicated types" (modulation, portamento, vibrato, pitch-bend, etc.) and then a run of "undefined" controllers up to 127. Most MIDI keyboards/synths will follow this standard to varying degrees, which is why Freestyler lets you adapt to what the controller can handle. The settings in the .ini file are to match the number of CCs that a given device can send out. With the BRC software you can change parameters to use all 127 CC "channels" as either defaults or customized types.

The issue I'm having is that the 01V96 (in the current mode or MIDI port that I'm capturing) uses 2 MIDI channels to give a higher resolution fader/controller - instead of sending (7-bit) 0-127 it sends (14-bit) 0-16000-ish by combining the 2 channels similar<?> to the way DMX fixtures can use 1 address (8 bits) for 0-255 or 2 addresses (16 bits) for 0-65535. (Used for coarse and fine pan/tilt controls, for example).

The problem is that instead of counting in a smooth 14-ish bit range, it uses one channel to count up 1, the next channel counts up to 127 before the first channel steps up another increment. The result is that the fader goes to 1, 2, 3, 4 ... on the first channel, and Freestyler sees and locks to that, but in between each of those numbers, the second channel goes from 0-127, which Freestyler also sees and locks to until 127 is reached and the first channel steps again, making faders jump up and down very rapidly. I don't think there is a way of having Freestyler read the 2-channel MIDI data, so I have to set the 01V96 to a lower res (single channel) mode if I want to control Freestyler with it.

However, I don't want to lose hi-res control over my audio, so I have to experiment a bit with some of the 01V MIDI settings to determine that when I set the General MIDI option to low res, that it is only the MIDI data being sent externally that gets the lo-res treatment, and not the internal controls.

The 01V96 user defined keys can also be set to do a lot of MIDI control, so I'd like to set a bank or two of those to double what some of the main functions I am currently doing on the BRC or qwerty keys, so they are there at all gigs whether I hook up the BRC or not, (and I can pretend I have that third arm I keep meaning to invent).

The other thing I'm trying to do is use un-used input faders as MIDI out controls for independent operation of some features, yet tie other functions to channels I do have audio on (delays, effects, etc. that get moved or muted) affect some of the lighting channels as I fade in/out the effects. In this way I'd almost never have to leave the audio console yet still have full(?) control of the lights.

Once I get this part working right, the next step would be (if needed) to add MIDI-OX / MIDI-Yoke / other MIDI translators (Multiplay?) to help automate some of the automation that Freestyler does. Or set up 01V96 scenes that recall different controls / settings for different songs. Baby steps. Baby steps...

It also occurred to me a while back that if I used DMX-IN and started using the cheapo 192 channel DMX controller I have as backup, I could have some good direct control (16 banks of 12 faders) as well as using the programmable scenes on it to perform a lot of pre-programmed / triggered scenes/sequences. MIDI combined with this would give a huge amount of control, albeit probably with a subsequent huge amount of setup and programming (and re-programming).

The MIDIgating (HA!) factor in all this: TIME! (I pretty much have the gear and the goal and something resembling a plan).


/Jimmie

[tommylee333]

From what I've read, your problem might be fixed by changing the range of the midi signal in Freestyler.ini. But, I've never tried it. I think you want to set it to 0-90, but can't remember for sure. I'll see if I can find a link.

I set mine to 60 and then it worked with my little mini midi keyboard. thanks for the info, God bless you my friend.

[SiPi3]

Hi all!

I would like to ask some help. I have a M-Audio Keystation Mini32. I tried to setup it for FS and just the knob works (set to Masterspeed), but all buttons and keys don't react.

DMX controller: Dezelectric PC DMX controller

Thanks for any advice!

[SiPi3]

Hi all!

I would like to ask some help. I have a M-Audio Keystation Mini32. I tried to setup it for FS and just the knob works (set to Masterspeed), but all buttons and keys don't react.

DMX controller: Dezelectric PC DMX controller

Thanks for any advice!

[Canah02]

Cool. Thanks! Think I'll play with it and see what happens.





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