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Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Questions regarding general external control forum.
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henryklein
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Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by henryklein » July 23rd, 2010, 10:26 am

First of all 2 things I need to say.

1. I tried out so many dmx programs (both freeware and so called "professionals") and got stuck in every of them. The last try I gave to Enttec DMXIS what was easy to program but missed so much features because it only works on scenes with the whole DMX Channels changing. (in other words no "transparent" function). Now I got to check the freestyler what is an amazing piece of software, but got stuck.
2. I am a musician / recording and FOH engineer / midi programmer for more than 30 years. started with MIDI on the old fashioned C64 in the early 80s, used all the available midi controllers during the time.

I have to controll the following items on stage for my band: Frontlights for 5 musicians, 8 TCL Led Par 64 in the back truss, 4 Led Par behind some kind of curtains (to make some colored areas) and a video beamer driven by Arkaos Grand VJ making a 6x4 meter beam on the backdrop.

I got to manage the VJ shit by an Akai APC20 what has left over a few buttons (40) and sliders (9) for remoting the lights.

The APC is not adjustable what controller, notes on which channel it will send. so I managed the input with den incredible MidiOX / MidiYoke for the Buttons/Faders I#d like to have in Freestyler by transforming it from where it comes to different CC, Notes on Midi channel 16 feeding to Freestyler.

As far as we got, everything works fine: Opening the midi controller page on FS, going into "learn", saving ... here we go.

Unfortunately EVERY controller I use to assign to the Submaster Go Back Run items doesnt work in FS. Once I've tried to make a keyboard shortcut (ie + - for submaster advance and back) it does fine. But incoming Midi messages dont work.

Here's what I send as an example:

Ch 16, Note 1 On, Vel. 127
Ch 16, CC 47, Val 127

changed to channel 1 without having MidiOx as the man in the middle: sending Note ons and offs '#53,54,55 ...

nothing happened.

So please could you give me a hint to solve the problem, I tried it for more than one week always with not really being succesfull.

Thanks in advance for supporting and sry 4 my poor english, hope my issue is quite understandable.

Cheers, Henry



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LJ_krede.dk
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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by LJ_krede.dk » July 23rd, 2010, 11:47 am

you have to send Control change messages to FS from your MIDI-controller. that's the way I do it: CC# and value 1.

some MIDI Attributes in FS is like on/off toggles (for instance the override buttons, Go, Back, Run etc). these atribbutes are in white boxes in the midi settings window. the blue boxes are attributes which should be used with rotary encoders and/or faders (for instance Intensity, Gobo wheel, MIDI to DMX etc.).

to send a on/off via MIDI to FS your buttons on your MIDI controller have to send out a CC# and the value 127. when it is released it has to return to 0 again. thereby the MIIDI controller shall be configured not to toggle between 0 and 127 but send out 127 each time it the buttons are pressed.

Note that FS only can receive MIDI from one channel at the time.. I hope this will change in the future

I don't know if this helps or you already knew this.. Please feel free to ask again if necessary

by the way.. yopu wrote you have been working/programming MIDI a long time.. do you know any software other than MIDI-ox which can manipulate" MIDI Messages?
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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by henryklein » July 23rd, 2010, 1:52 pm

Hey LJ_krede, and thx 4 your fast reply.

YOur hints have been very useful for me, I start realizing what FS wants from me ;) Unfortunately the Akai Controller does toggle on some buttons and latch on others. I still havent found a solution to manage it on the MidiOX. However, I will keep trying.

You are right, it would be a great enhancement to have FS reaction to several Midi Channels. As long as you have a programmable Midi remote you wont have to care about. but with the Akai thingy you may get crazy. In Arkaos Grand VJ it works fine including feedback for the illuminated buttons bust still not easy to handle in FS. I will have to remap the return from FS vice versa I did the incoming data: strange.

Maybe I will give the Behringer Remote a try, I own both of them the fader and the rotary. But I wanted to have all the light stuff on one Remote.

To your question, I dunno another program to manage the mappimg. On stage I use to have the Miditemp MP44 hardware to organize all my equipment. It does a great job with all the channel remapping, merging etc to feed my sound modules (Hypersonic on the laptop, Alesis Workstation, Line6 PodLive for Guitar effects) from several sources.

Thanks again.

Cheers, Henry

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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by LJ_krede.dk » July 23rd, 2010, 9:27 pm

henryklein wrote:Unfortunately the Akai Controller does toggle on some buttons and latch on others. I still havent found a solution to manage it on the MidiOX. However, I will keep trying.
I know exactly how you get Midiox to do the workaround for you.. I forgot it thoug :oops:

I will look into it tomowwow and post the result
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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by LJ_krede.dk » July 24th, 2010, 8:08 pm

Hey henryklein

as promised:
Translation map.jpg
what MIDIOX do here, is when it receives a control change with the amount 127 (from MIDI Controller) it sends out 127 followed by 0.
when MIDIOX receives a control change with the amount 0 it sends out 127 followed by 0, just like FS wants it

in my example all control change numbers (0-127) is mapped... you have to configure it so it matches the buttons on your midi controller

Enjoy,, and feel free to ask again
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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by henryklein » July 25th, 2010, 12:36 pm

Thx a lot DJ_krede for your reply and making MY problem to yours. Great!

Seems the "clone" function will lead me to success, I didnt think about it yet.

But there's still the problem that the AKAI sends Note messages on 9 several channels (see appended pic)

So I will have to transform like this:

incoming notes on ch1 = same notes on ch16 (which leads to FS),
incoming notes on ch2 = same notes+10 on ch16
incoming notes on ch3 = same notes+20 on ch16
....
(maybe have to subtract note# when reaching the 127 limit)

and vice versa to get the LEDs in the Akai to react to FS's feedback. Another lonely night at the computer screen ;)

If that will lead me to success I will post the mapping here.

Thanks again.

Cheers,

Henry

Image

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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by LJ_krede.dk » July 25th, 2010, 5:24 pm

you got that right,, there's some mapping to do... ;)

but again.. I found you issue interesting so if you need help, say so....
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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by remco_k » July 25th, 2010, 6:27 pm

This is one of the (almost) many 'requests' for FreeStyler to let it respond to multiple Midi channels instead of one fixed.
Maybe its time to take FreeStyler to the next level and opt for a multi midi channel response.
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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by LJ_krede.dk » July 25th, 2010, 6:41 pm

Would Be AWESOME!!!! I know the MIDI Pages is a great workaround, but serveral MIDI channels would do it so much easier.

by the way... I found out that MIDI output from FS is always on channel 1 and not what you configure the input to be.. Does anybody have the same issue?
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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by henryklein » July 25th, 2010, 7:10 pm

LJ_krede.dk wrote:Would Be AWESOME!!!! I know the MIDI Pages is a great workaround, but serveral MIDI channels would do it so much easier.

by the way... I found out that MIDI output from FS is always on channel 1 and not what you configure the input to be.. Does anybody have the same issue?
you are right, would be great to have FS reacting to whatever Midi message com from. Going back to my early programming knowledge (was the early 80s and 8080 processors were the things we played with using machine language) it seems to be no thing to make FS react to any MIDI message coming into it, isnt it? jst a "simple" compare if>then with getting rid of the channel bit.

cheers,

Henry

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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by kevinbrice » October 29th, 2010, 8:39 pm

can you please post this as something tangible to download. I have an apc40 and would love to try making it work with freestyler, but i would love to see something to start with.

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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by Kiter1988 » December 24th, 2011, 3:32 pm

hey Guys, can you help me ?

Yes, i read the previous posts, but i do not understand the most of it. my english is not so great.
How i get the APC to run ? witch progs i need ?

maybe, you can explain me like a little child or in german :-D
EDIT: IT RUNS !! =)

I have only route the knobs to the correct funktion in freestyler.. ok
but how i can make the buttoms shine on my apc ?

for this i need a midi program like midiox ?
in the right dropdown box i have choose the apc ... but no lights are on

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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by Kiter1988 » December 27th, 2011, 12:55 pm

Ok next Step ,

i know i need Midi-ox to send the right notes back to the APC.
But i cant handle with midi-ox

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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by djvuu » March 27th, 2012, 2:52 am

Just curious... has anyone been able to successfully create a Akai APC40 mapping for MIDI-OX that will work with Freestyler?

Been playing around with it for hours now, and have gotten some things to work, other things not so much.

Amazing controller, but making it work appears to be out of my skill set. :)

Thanks!

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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by AndrewSchulcz » April 19th, 2015, 2:43 pm

@ LJ_krede.dk

I was getting a headache with my BCF2000, trying to use the 16 push-buttons (just below the rotary encoders) to control the submaster GO/Back commands. Each time I tried to use these buttons, I had to press the button twice before it would send the signal to FS, which was frustrating!
Using your Translation Map, I was able to upload those settings into my BCF2000 and this resolved my problems. I can now use those buttons move up and down the cues in the submaster windows. Fantastic! Thanks for your time sharing this info with everyone!
For others who are looking to solve this button issue, try the above solution in MidiOx. Also, in FS's midi setup I had to turn off the "Note On/Note Off" and "Convert Flash to Toggle".
Thanks again LJ_krede.dk!

Drew

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Re: Submaster Go Back Run via Midi

Post by NahuelVernetti » April 23rd, 2018, 10:18 pm

Estando en el 2018 existe alguna solucion al problema del mapeo de AKAI APC 40?

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