Outdoor Event Questions

[Nathanrs93]

Hi,
I'm doing a outdoor event later on this year with the boss where we will be doing the sound and lighting. The sound we have no problem with, but I wanted to ask some questions in regards to lighting. I myself will be doing lighting and the boss will be on the sound desk.

Have you ever done an outdoor event? Any tips?
The event we are doing is a local event where we are based, but a big one as it goes on for three days and a lot is riding on me and I'm nervous. We are doing the sound and lighting for the bands that will be playing and I wasn't sure how to go about a few things, so I thought I would ask.

What is a good wattage for different lighting fixtures when outdoor? Par cans, Moving heads, Lasers, Scanners etc...

Is 1000 watt acceptable for RGB/Par 64 Cans? (I do plan on hopefully using RGB Par 56 as well for colour washing.)
What is a minimum you would say for moving heads? 250w? 500w?
Would 250w scanners be alright or do I need more watts?
I have my eye on some 1000mW (1 watt) lasers as I thought these would be good, but have been told 2000mW (2 watt) is a minimum when outdoor? Thoughts?

Because there will be a big crowd as it's a three day event and camping is allowed I wanted to ask how to go about this and also programming. I plan on pre-programming a bit so it helps me out but never programmed on this scale before, so need easy access to stuff and quick.

I plan on doing keyboard shortcuts, sub masters, overrides, etc or would I be better getting some Behringer BCF2000s? I've never used midi before so don't know how to go about it. Tips are welcome

Nathan

[Kings]

Inside or outside?

[Nathanrs93]

Inside or outside?

It does say "Outdoor Event Questions" in the subject?

[Kings]

Sorry...is it on a sheltered stage or doof party in the middle of a forest. Will you be able to use fog/haze? If not then it will severely restrict you options when it comes to using lasers and moving heads. Without haze you won't be able to see beams of light so you'll need to reflect light of a surface (ie stage/trees) or have them pointing directly into the audience (ie par cans, blunders, strobes etc). You had also better check about licensing issues with lasers as the one you mentioned are potentially very dangerous.

[Nathanrs93]

Sorry...is it on a sheltered stage or doof party in the middle of a forest. Will you be able to use fog/haze? If not then it will severely restrict you options when it comes to using lasers and moving heads. Without haze you won't be able to see beams of light so you'll need to reflect light of a surface (ie stage/trees) or have them pointing directly into the audience (ie par cans, blunders, strobes etc). You had also better check about licensing issues with lasers as the one you mentioned are potentially very dangerous.

It's alright It will be on the back of a 40 foot HGV arctic trailer so there's like a roof if it starts raining. I'll probably been using smoke/haze on the lights for the beams, more likely smoke because I don't get to use it that often within venues because of smoke alarms. Then I'll probably end up using a bit of low fog creeping out from underneath drummer to give off a nice effect as we've done it before inside and it works well.

I know about the lasers that we are using are going to be dangerous which is why I've read about them and that they need to be so high up from the audience etc.

[Spirit]

hi

also nice to know is How high will be the lights.
and how much poeple can come to the venue..
and how big is the Venue.

But most of the times if i do a Big outdoor event. (1500 / 2000 people)
i use 500 (575) Watt Mh's
1Kw parcans
and 2 or more 6W Full color (ILDA) lasers, and controll the lasers with Pangolin. this also bepant on the type of Event. with a Band event i will not use any Lasers but if its a Dance event then there will be some lasers.

and a BCF2000 would allways be nice to have. it works allot better then using a Mouse or Keyboard.
and Midi is a Realy easy protocal.

i'm search for Vidoe's from the party i did yesterday / today.
thats a party for 400 poeple with 6x mac500 (500watt) 4x sunstrips 2x 6W full colorlaser.
and More then 10KW!!! of Sound.. (8x D&B C7 Subs (800W), 2x D&B C7 tops (800W) 4x D&B C6 tops (800W) and 2x JBL CSR82L PEAK = 6400W!!!! RMS = 1600W subs)

[Nathanrs93]

I'm just trying to make sure I covered mostly everything as it's one of them things where anything could happen and I have to go with the flow.

No one could help me out by telling where to get a couple of things, could they?

Good 250w/500w moving heads?
Good lasers for outdoor that are not expensive?
Good 250w scanners?

I know I'm going to be spending a bit on these three things as they are the most "important" feature and give off a good effect, but I'm thinking that ebay is my best choice unless someone knows other places?

The Venue it's self is on the back of a 40 foot HGV arctic like I've said, which will be in the middle of a field. I'm not sure audience wise how many people could be there at any one time, but with it being an local event which happens every year could be anything from 1000+

[Kings]

For what you want it's probably best to hire the equipment from a production company. If you buy the equipment you may struggle to use it again if your not doing these types of events regularly. Your 'new' equipment will also be exposed to the elements for a few days and I've seen some horror pictures of gear covered in dust kicked up from the dance floor. Don't forget to get yourself a decent generator. You'll need power for sound, lighting, 'house' lighting (flood lights over the audience), stage power etc. Get a more powerful generator than you need so that you don't spend the whole time worrying about tripping anything. don't forget to hire three phase extensions and power distribution boards so your not running kilometres of power cables.

[Nathanrs93]

For what you want it's probably best to hire the equipment from a production company. If you buy the equipment you may struggle to use it again if your not doing these types of events regularly. Your 'new' equipment will also be exposed to the elements for a few days and I've seen some horror pictures of gear covered in dust kicked up from the dance floor. Don't forget to get yourself a decent generator. You'll need power for sound, lighting, 'house' lighting (flood lights over the audience), stage power etc. Get a more powerful generator than you need so that you don't spend the whole time worrying about tripping anything. don't forget to hire three phase extensions and power distribution boards so your not running kilometres of power cables.

That's all being sorted it's just a case of what lighting to get and there's no point in hiring anyway as the company I work for will buy it and use it again in the near future, as we do outdoor events with sound. It's just that it's a first time with this scale of lighting that we've got to buy it in now.

[Kings]

I let someone else 'sort' the power for an outdoor event yesterday and ended up with a generator connected to a distribution board...with a 3m three phase extension inbetween. We ended up having to park the geni behind the stage (a medium sized truck with the vinyl sides pulled back).

What coloured sides does the truck have? White vinyl is great as a few par cans or RGB strips across the back of the 'stage' look great as up lights. I would suggest having a smoke machine/hazer at either end of the truck just in case the wind is blowing in the wrong direction.

If your going to buy the gear, then you may as well buy more well known brands like Martin or Robe. Thereare plenty of Chinese copies on the market but their warranties are pretty much worthless if your not prepared to ship back and forth to China.

[Nathanrs93]

Yeah, the guy that is putting the event on is sorting the generator. So no problem there. I'm unsure what colour the sides are until I go and have a look at the truck at a later date. I agree with the smoke/haze at each end because I was gonna put a low fogger in the middle, but still unsure yet. No doubt it will be Martin, Robe or something like clay paky because it's only the only stuff we will deal with for touring stuff, but discos we use the people like american DJ etc. But still the DJ companies I admit do good stuff that you can use for touring.

Have you done outdoor events then Kings? How do you find it? What do you use?

[Kings]

Only small scale stuff and all are DJ based productions. The best people to talk to are the outdoor festival promotors or try and touch base with your local 'doofers' (small community of folks who put on dance parties in the bush/woods and play psytrance). These guys put on a lot of outdoor parties and sometimes have great contacts for VDJs and laser operators/artists. Could be a good source of info.

You really need to check out the truck first and then work out what physical space you'll be dealing with. Will you just be hanging lights inside the truck or will you need additional trussing outside it? How high will the fixtures hang and how far are they expected to throw (ie onto a specific area like a dance floor or mosh pit or are you looking to cover the whole audience). Will you be using crowd barriers? Once you have these details you can start thinking about what types of fixtures to use.

Don't reinvent the wheel...try and find some similar events on YouTube and see what gear other organisers use. Hopefully spirit can put up some video of his latest production.

[Nathanrs93]

Only small scale stuff and all are DJ based productions. The best people to talk to are the outdoor festival promotors or try and touch base with your local 'doofers' (small community of folks who put on dance parties in the bush/woods and play psytrance). These guys put on a lot of outdoor parties and sometimes have great contacts for VDJs and laser operators/artists. Could be a good source of info.

You really need to check out the truck first and then work out what physical space you'll be dealing with. Will you just be hanging lights inside the truck or will you need additional trussing outside it? How high will the fixtures hang and how far are they expected to throw (ie onto a specific area like a dance floor or mosh pit or are you looking to cover the whole audience). Will you be using crowd barriers? Once you have these details you can start thinking about what types of fixtures to use.

Don't reinvent the wheel...try and find some similar events on YouTube and see what gear other organisers use. Hopefully spirit can put up some video of his latest production.

Thanks for the useful tips and information, Kings. It's really helped

[Kings]

Keep thinking of new stuff to condsider.

A Dj is easy to light as they are fairly static (ie dont move arround) but some band members like to roam up and down the stage. You therefore might have to set up some 'front' light so the audience can see the performers. That may mean setting up lights out from the truck pointing in at the stage so you can see the faces of the performers. Rear light will silhouetter them and top light will make tem look like they are standing under a street lamp (ie long shadows under their chins). You can put lights arround the OPS/FOH location but that means the performers are getting a face full of light. Not sure what sort of sound you may be using but scaffold used to hang a line array imay be usefull for this type of lighting. Speak to your sound guy and try and work out what sort of structures they'll be using. Also ask where they plan to put their speakers (stacks?) so you dont waste time lighting anything behind them on stage. If they plan to put speakers on the actual stage then they face a major problem with sound bouncing arround inside the stage and causing feedback. Add some monitor wedges and/or side fills to this and then the problem gets even worse.

Given that you have a band on stage you wont have much room behind them. One effect I've seen lately that is simple and effective is to hang some LED tubes on small upright truss (like goal posts). They look good, dont take up too much room and dont use much power:



With any luck your truck may already have some metal braces to hang them off.



Some movers on the lip of the stage (on either side of the band) would also give you some cool options like searchlights, lighting the roof of the truck, 'flying' out into the crowd, blinders etc.

[Nathanrs93]

I agree that band members can move around a lot as I've seen it from experience from sound jobs. I'm unsure what you mean by OPS/FOH?? I believe that the speakers will be stacked on the end of truck at each end so I know that putting anything in regards to lighting is out of the question.

I like the LED tubes on upright truss, it works well which is a good idea as I know that from experience there's no room to move or space when a drum kit is on the trailer. That's the problem I have with the fact that once the drum kit is on the trailer there's no room, so I've got to put the lights in front on trussing I believe but it's something I need to speak about with the boss. Plus, I also need to see a trailer which is something I will be doing soon so I can see where, if there is any points to hang trussing from.

I like your idea with putting some things on the lip of the trailer and I plan on putting a few lights on the roof if possible, but still unsure. It's something I plan on working on in the next couple of weeks with building a 3D view so I can see what it will possibly look like.

[Kings]

Operations (Ops) or FOH (Front of House) position in this kind of event is usually a tent set out directly in front of the stage, say about 20 metres away. Its the best place for the sound engineer to hear and mix the music and also the best place for the lighting guy (ie you) to take in the show. Doing the lighting from the side of the stage is a lot less enjoyable as you never really get to appreciate your own lighting show. Make sure the sound guy has a free channel on the multicore so you can run your DMX from the Ops tent to the stage. Also make sure your lighting is on a seperate power phase to the sound as your lighting could potentially create hums/noises thru the PA. Make yourself as comfortable as you can in the tent with a good chair, desk and maybe a rug/carpet on the ground for that extra bit of luxury. Also hide all unused powerpoints in the tent or you'll be babysittinga a collection of recharging phones the whole time.

[Kings]

...post a screen shot of the 3D visualization when your finished!

[Nathanrs93]

Oh right, yeah I remember this when we did a sound event. We were about 30 meters away and ran the multicore under the grass in like a little trench we dug out, it worked well so no doubt we will be doing that again for this event.

Yeah, we always have lighting and sound separate but not many people do which is surprising. I will no doubt be posting pictures of what I'm doing through the next couple of months. Thanks again for the advice! If anything else comes to mind post it here or PM me. Ta

[buttza]

If your going to buy the gear, then you may as well buy more well known brands like Martin or Robe. Thereare plenty of Chinese copies on the market but their warranties are pretty much worthless if your not prepared to ship back and forth to China.

Or you have to learn to fix them yourself like I did.