Art-Net or Wireless [SOLVED]

[Nathanrs93]

Hey,
I'm looking into using some fixtures wireless but I've heard it can be unreliable in some cases with the frequency range. I was wondering if you could do it with art-net and how it works, setting it up and whatever because never used it before.

So what do you use? Art-net or wireless? Good points & Bad points?
What is the point in art-net? isn't sending it over a network risky of it dropping out during a show?
Any useful tips?
Regards
Nathan

[spud1511]

There are some very reliable wireless systems out there, but not all are equal, the cheap ones all over eBay for example won't match the systems used across entire towns to synchronise Christmas lighting, or several universes over temporary arenas where permanent cable runs are not practical. Artnet will still require cabling, but will be easier to do if you happen to be working somewhere with pre-installed Ethernet cables, and will have more advantages soon for bigger shows if freestyler upgrades to multi-universes.

[buttza]

I use art-net all the time.
I love it. I think it is awesome. I think that it is the future to be honest. Works well and I have never had an issue with it.

I have used wireless too. But I cheat. I only use wireless between control and stage. I connect the computer wirelessly to an AP that is on the stage then plug the e-DMX interface into the router via LAN. It works well if you are using a new WIFI router. The older ones can sometimes have too much delay. The direct WIFI DMX are a little trickier to use. Yu have t set the universe on each unit.

I have also used the battery powered wireless DMX up lights. they use a WIFI box that syncs to the lights to send the DMX wifi to each fixture. They take a little messing around to configure but still work fairly well.

Hope that helps.

[Nathanrs93]

I use art-net all the time.
I love it. I think it is awesome. I think that it is the future to be honest. Works well and I have never had an issue with it.

I have used wireless too. But I cheat. I only use wireless between control and stage. I connect the computer wirelessly to an AP that is on the stage then plug the e-DMX interface into the router via LAN. It works well if you are using a new WIFI router. The older ones can sometimes have too much delay. The direct WIFI DMX are a little trickier to use. Yu have t set the universe on each unit.

I have also used the battery powered wireless DMX up lights. they use a WIFI box that syncs to the lights to send the DMX wifi to each fixture. They take a little messing around to configure but still work fairly well.

Hope that helps.

Not really You've just completely blow over my head! I don't get it

[spud1511]

Reliability or interference issues would usually be only momentary and caused by the conditions you are exposing the equipment to.
A lot of the wireless systems I have known have issues are almost exclusively caused by one of three factors.
1- exceeding the range by using further away than the published distance from the transmitter.
2- using poor quality equipment. I mention about cheapo eBay ones before, although I should admit the newer generation are much improved.
3- localised obstruction or interference, such as thick walls in the line of sight. Or using the same frequency / channel as local wifi or cordless phones.

In short, nearly all these things can be avoided by a bit of consideration and planning.

Artnet is a great alternative - if you already have a fast network in place, or can run a network cable to the artnet reciever. The downside though is that from the Artnet device onwards, and from light to light it will still be cabled using normal dmx cable.

It would make more sense to compare USB-dmx devices to Artnet-USB devices.

If you require free placement of fixtures wireless dmx is by far the most suitable option.
If you only need a wireless 'jump' to the first light from the controller and the rest can be cabled then Artnet could also work and would be your best option if you are using a full universe of fixtures.

How many of what kind of lights are you planning on using? Which bits / or is it all bits need to be wireless?

[Nathanrs93]

Reliability or interference issues would usually be only momentary and caused by the conditions you are exposing the equipment to.
A lot of the wireless systems I have known have issues are almost exclusively caused by one of three factors.
1- exceeding the range by using further away than the published distance from the transmitter.
2- using poor quality equipment. I mention about cheapo eBay ones before, although I should admit the newer generation are much improved.
3- localised obstruction or interference, such as thick walls in the line of sight. Or using the same frequency / channel as local wifi or cordless phones.

In short, nearly all these things can be avoided by a bit of consideration and planning.

Artnet is a great alternative - if you already have a fast network in place, or can run a network cable to the artnet reciever. The downside though is that from the Artnet device onwards, and from light to light it will still be cabled using normal dmx cable.

It would make more sense to compare USB-dmx devices to Artnet-USB devices.

If you require free placement of fixtures wireless dmx is by far the most suitable option.
If you only need a wireless 'jump' to the first light from the controller and the rest can be cabled then Artnet could also work and would be your best option if you are using a full universe of fixtures.

How many of what kind of lights are you planning on using? Which bits / or is it all bits need to be wireless?

I plan on using wireless for up-lighters for disco's and also live events. But I was unsure how art-net worked which is why I asked to see if I could benefit from it. It was just that I'm not good with computers when it comes to technically and if art-net was useful I was gonna use it more on the outdoor events etc, but didn't have a clue where to start with it and what to do and the devices to get.

And after hours of searching google it came up with nothing really.

[spud1511]

Well the really simplified version is.
USB-dmx adapter:
Gets the lighting info from your computer by plugging into USB slot, and generates dmx signal lights understand.

Pros: cheapest option, simplest to setup and troubleshoot.

Cons: you really need a decent one, like the enttec pro, or the dmxking ultra pro. Ones that are cheaper or rely on computer to do all the work can be unstable, slow or produce flickering output.

Artnet - dmx:
Same job as USB-dmx but does it through a network.
Pros: better support for multiple universes (in case freestyler ever gets this ability), better suited for permanently installing in venues where network is setup. Often can be remotely configured without having to actually get to it. With a good quality network cable can be run up to 100m away from computer (double if router in middle) or even further on fibre optic network. Built in processor allow it to run at the same kind of performance as the better USB-dmx devices.

Cons: completely reliant on network for performance and reliability, if there is other stuff on network like devices remotely controlling software, or even internet access can cause momentary slowdown. Interference or errors on network can completely stop the show, and although not likely to happen very often will take longest to get back up and running.

Wireless dmx:
Just uses a transmitter & reciever in place of the dmx cable so you can put lights in places where a cable to them isn't practical or safe - like across dance floors, public access doorways or fire escapes. It generally still needs a dmx signal to transmit so would normally be used in conjunction with either adapter above, and makes absolutely no difference to the wireless system which one you plug into it.

However, if you want true freedom of placement also note that some 'wireless' lights still require a power supply cable. If your going to go wireless you might also want to check the lights you look at are battery powered / rechargeable as well.


Ps sorry if this is over simplifying.

[Nathanrs93]

Well the really simplified version is.
USB-dmx adapter:
Gets the lighting info from your computer by plugging into USB slot, and generates dmx signal lights understand.

Pros: cheapest option, simplest to setup and troubleshoot.

Cons: you really need a decent one, like the enttec pro, or the dmxking ultra pro. Ones that are cheaper or rely on computer to do all the work can be unstable, slow or produce flickering output.

Artnet - dmx:
Same job as USB-dmx but does it through a network.
Pros: better support for multiple universes (in case freestyler ever gets this ability), better suited for permanently installing in venues where network is setup. Often can be remotely configured without having to actually get to it. With a good quality network cable can be run up to 100m away from computer (double if router in middle) or even further on fibre optic network. Built in processor allow it to run at the same kind of performance as the better USB-dmx devices.

Cons: completely reliant on network for performance and reliability, if there is other stuff on network like devices remotely controlling software, or even internet access can cause momentary slowdown. Interference or errors on network can completely stop the show, and although not likely to happen very often will take longest to get back up and running.

Wireless dmx:
Just uses a transmitter & reciever in place of the dmx cable so you can put lights in places where a cable to them isn't practical or safe - like across dance floors, public access doorways or fire escapes. It generally still needs a dmx signal to transmit so would normally be used in conjunction with either adapter above, and makes absolutely no difference to the wireless system which one you plug into it.

However, if you want true freedom of placement also note that some 'wireless' lights still require a power supply cable. If your going to go wireless you might also want to check the lights you look at are battery powered / rechargeable as well.


Ps sorry if this is over simplifying.

No that's perfect! I couldn't have asked for it better myself! Thanks for that.

[buttza]

This is the "Cheating" WIFI setup I use with Art-Net for the guys that wanted to know.

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[Nathanrs93]

This is the "Cheating" WIFI setup I use with Art-Net for the guys that wanted to know.

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Thanks for that! But what I don't understand is the fact that is just over the stop is it not? I mean why do that when you can just run 1 or 2 DMX cables down to your lights which would take 5 mins? Instead of setting that up and then find out you have network issues or ip issues?

[spud1511]

If your lights were all linked together in one place by dmx cable, and didnt need to be apart from each other, but your control had to be from a point requiring a wireless operator (like if the operator was at back of room or on a raised balcony or something, and it wasnt safe or practical to run a long cable), and you happen to own an artnet interface, then it would make sense as the laptop already has wifi built in.

[Nathanrs93]

If your lights were all linked together in one place by dmx cable, and didnt need to be apart from each other, but your control had to be from a point requiring a wireless operator (like if the operator was at back of room or on a raised balcony or something, and it wasnt safe or practical to run a long cable), and you happen to own an artnet interface, then it would make sense as the laptop already has wifi built in.

Oh right I see. So we are talking along the lines of festivals such as glastonbury etc

[spud1511]

Oh right I see. So we are talking along the lines of festivals such as glastonbury etc

Not exactly, they would probably need a lot more than one or two universes and more likely use a big expensive hog style hardware controller.

Think something like a small stage/theatre where 'lighting guy' might be sat at the back for the performance with 'sound guy' (or even be the same person).

[buttza]

Usually all that is in one box. I just apply power and then login to that wireless network. Done.

Good for focus setting from anywhere in the room. You can actually fine tune your positions. Can be difficult to do from level ground or back of the room.

You are right that it is better to just DMX cable it but over long distances it is nice to have the options. Also for permanent installs you may only need to control white wash. With art-net you can pretty much use any DMX app to control dimmers from your phone of iPad.